tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post993000292703965152..comments2024-03-29T04:01:31.445-04:00Comments on Lovely Bicycle!: Bicycles and EscapismVelouriahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-31286294374036751462011-08-20T01:49:10.786-04:002011-08-20T01:49:10.786-04:00I really liked the post, really very nostalgic tha...I really liked the post, really very nostalgic that pic is. It's true that you must escape at least for a day from these all time busy, over crowded network and busy roads and schedule.<br />Thanks for sharing the pic.bicycle shop long beachhttp://thebikeconnection.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-17817930155983380122011-08-16T14:46:54.981-04:002011-08-16T14:46:54.981-04:00The booksellers along the quays in front of Notre ...The booksellers along the quays in front of Notre Dame and Saint Chapelle in Paris sell a lot of old bike posters and photos. This pic is commonly seen on their racks. I've looked at them a number of times and have never seen a date or any info on the ones they are selling. How is it that someone has a 1942 date on this? Have you seen anywhere this is confirmed as being 1942? I don't doubt the story, just curious.Bifhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05543158648103470697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-36953875207262607622011-08-14T14:28:37.187-04:002011-08-14T14:28:37.187-04:00Perhaps the women were discussing their recent enj...Perhaps the women were discussing their recent enjoyable visit to one of Paris's many theatres, cinemas, dance halls and other places of entertainment which stayed open throughout the occupation.petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09988347024466013018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-61233490694811736592011-08-12T17:39:02.117-04:002011-08-12T17:39:02.117-04:00Thanks for both a stimulating original post, and a...Thanks for both a stimulating original post, and an informative follow up discussion. The issues of allegiance, escapism, perception, and choosing what we want to see, pay attention to, remember, or forget are fascinating. Any discussion of them is likely to be unsettling, because they make us question assumptions and examine our own perceptions and behavior. I learned from the thread, even the parts I found difficult to read.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-47347972178643540622011-08-12T14:19:05.927-04:002011-08-12T14:19:05.927-04:00@ Anoymous 2:53
In the 24 hours following the Nor...@ Anoymous 2:53<br /><br />In the 24 hours following the Norvegian events, in the media, plenty of serious analysts, editorialists, experts etc. attributed the attacks to Al Quaida, the easy and usual suspect. I am mostly talking about French and Brit media, didn't follow US reactions.<br />http://www.acrimed.org/article3637.html<br /><br />When it became clear that it was an internal operation by a right wing fascist man, they all became speechless not knowing what to say or how to analyse the events.<br />That's because two things have happened to fascism since WWII: <br />Propaganda tried to make people believe it was something only "they" did, and that "they" were a tiny minority now difunct while "we" were all innocent and pure. Old school hardcore fascism was dead. Far from the truth.<br />Second, lots of fascist ideas have been toned/watered down and became very mainstream, i.e.under the radar. Several mainstream intellectuals are associated to the criminal via his manifesto (they're all trying to minimise and back pedal now). Plenty of people unknowingly sport very fascist ideas without even realising it.<br /><br />That's all I meant. <br />I am not passing any judgement on Norway or the Norvegians. Could have happened anywhere in Europe, especially in France where the climate is at its worst.<br /><br />We are living very dangerous times, in many ways very similar to the 1930s. Actually we are back in the 30s. Things could tip very easily in the wrong direction. <br />Everybody subliminally perceives it one way or another. There is something extremely creepy cooking below the surface.<br /><br />I feel that this is what is fueling the cycling hysteria Velouria analysed. <br />You can feel it in other fields as well. Horseback riding classes, outdoor/scout stuff, home wine making, solar pannels, sewing classes, community gardening etc. Folks are "preparing" for after.Montrealizehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08689176985812848399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-29159156382571314672011-08-12T12:09:39.854-04:002011-08-12T12:09:39.854-04:00Velouria and neighbourtease
I am sorry, I did no...Velouria and neighbourtease <br /><br />I am sorry, I did not want to be harsh, I merely wanted to address the following two assertions:<br /><br />"Montrealize should take more care before writing such ill-informed and offensive nonsense."<br /><br />"These are very bad, very wrong, comments and should not have been made so carelessly." <br /><br />None of what I said was offensive, ill-informed, nonesense or careless. <br />As Velouria said "The issues of allegiances that some of you are raising are part of a debate that historians have dedicated their entire academic careers to." This is absolutely true.<br />And everything I said perfectly squares with what lots of academics have demonstrated (let alone real first hand accounts). <br />That some do not agree/like it or see it differently is perfectly legitimate, but does not make it offensive ill-informed, nonesense or careless, nor does it change the facts.<br /><br />The original post was about a picture, and that picture was taken in 1942. I do not feel anything I said was off topic considering that fact.<br />This period of the history was not all that bad for lots of people which in my view is important to understand why the picture Velouria posted can be perfectly plausible and not necessarily the result of any particular manipulation. It can perfectly be a normal standard fashion picture.<br /><br />"Historically, the photo did not make sense."<br />Based on lots of serious historians, yes it did. <br />Based on personal accounts as well. I actually have seen more than one real private pictures (i.e. non-fashion, non-commercial) at people's places (in Latin America though, in Europe, people are still too ashamed and did not keep them anyways), of people's grandparents actually cheering, laughing and partying joyfully, champagne in hand together with German officers. Non-prostitution related either. Plenty of artists did that, high society folks, business people. At the "Libération" most got away pretty nice or escaped taking "la route des rats" and made a good life in South America.<br /><br />Lots of such pictures got destroyed when the winds started to blow the other way. One of my in-laws, a rather old lady, was a young maid back then and tells amazing stories of that period, among which having to spend nights with her mistress burning documents, letters and similar pictures in the fireplace!<br /><br />In my view, this might explain why that picture above seems odd for some. The discrepancy Velouria interpreted as escapism, has a lot lot to do with the rarity of such images (nobody wants to get caught right?) rather that any specific propaganda.<br /><br />As for the tone, I am sorry I did no mean for it to be hostile. I actually do not find it hostile at all but I'll try to be more careful with choice of words.Montrealizehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08689176985812848399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-53181606929834971822011-08-12T11:01:03.118-04:002011-08-12T11:01:03.118-04:00V., Yours sounds like an interesting theory, but ...V., Yours sounds like an interesting theory, but I'm not sure exactly what phenomenon you are referring to. Do you mean the consumerism-the new businesses that are popping up with way-highend clothes, etc.? You make me curious about dealers such as Wheelworks. I would be interested in knowing if/how much of a bump they have had in business, and what kind of bikes are "trendy."Anne Welchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07773939487916426557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-41300650836111887332011-08-12T09:13:49.296-04:002011-08-12T09:13:49.296-04:00The issues of allegiances that some of you are rai...The issues of allegiances that some of you are raising are part of a debate that historians have dedicated their entire academic careers to. I do not think that we can (or should) try to settle it here on my little bicycle blog.<br /><br />This point aside, I think it is fairly accurate to say that regardless of whose side one was on, and regardless of whether one's wartime experience was "all Anne Frank" or not, living in a European country during WWII was stressful and full of uncertainty for the great majority of people. <br /><br />Montrealize - Please <a href="http://lovelybike.blogspot.com/2011/02/comments-arguments-bicycles.html" rel="nofollow">read this</a> before you post further comments here. I value your point of view and don't want to start moderating out your comments. But please cut down on the hostility of tone.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-26501628165616843772011-08-12T08:48:25.432-04:002011-08-12T08:48:25.432-04:00Montrealize, even those who sympathize with your v...Montrealize, even those who sympathize with your views will cringe at the harshness of your tone and apparent lack of tolerance for other views. Tolerance and patience will do more for your advocacy. You win more flies with honey than vinegar etc.neighbourteasehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17571138655370581828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-56468931728435129642011-08-12T05:41:28.205-04:002011-08-12T05:41:28.205-04:00Going back to bikes- yes, I think Veloria is right...Going back to bikes- yes, I think Veloria is right about glamorizing something like bikes during tough times. It makes it acceptable and more palatable.<br /><br />What I worry about is five or ten years down the road, twenty (or what ever when) we are back to being prosperous. SUV's will make a comeback and the muscle car. The bike will go back to being for poor people and/or children's play things. There is a theory that gasoline will never see low prices again which may change the landscape, but who knows.<br /><br />For now though, bikes are becoming trendy again and I'm all for it. If it gets some life long converts.. YAYRonahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16096213034605839343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-88994127161397692592011-08-12T02:53:03.982-04:002011-08-12T02:53:03.982-04:00Who are you to know "what recently happened i...Who are you to know "what recently happened in Norway"? Do you judge a whole nation from one mad mans actions? Did you look into how the rest of the Norwegians reacted? Empty drums make the most noice. Could you plse stop poluting this BICYCLE blog w your nonsens? Thank you.<br />badmotherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-69400280261141951642011-08-12T02:34:34.063-04:002011-08-12T02:34:34.063-04:00A scene from a classic among classics: La Grande V...A scene from a classic among classics: La Grande Vadrouille.<br /><br />http://youtu.be/8jneSOJVF1I<br /><br />BTW, it is worth it to watch the entire movie.<br />So yeah, bikes were also mere transports.Montrealizehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08689176985812848399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-91571787346836930552011-08-12T00:37:09.445-04:002011-08-12T00:37:09.445-04:00"Lots of people have lost the connection to r..."Lots of people have lost the connection to reality so the bullshit we can make them swallow is cruder than ever. i.e. Creationism, mass destruction weapons in Irak (love this one) denial of global warming etc. Those who push cycling have to pedal upstream against all of this, thus the hysteria. " <br /><br /><br />Some of those who advocate cycling also have to pedal upstream against those who think that cycling is synonymous with accepting the above ideologies as given facts.MFarringtonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-29777574013080500292011-08-11T22:22:26.088-04:002011-08-11T22:22:26.088-04:00@ Anonymous 8:36
(For some reason, I could not po...@ Anonymous 8:36<br /><br />(For some reason, I could not post in one piece)<br /><br />"There were indeed collaborators in France during the war, including the Vichy government. Very many were executed when the war ended - they were profoundly hated."<br /><br />LOL. This is the most hilarious part of your response.<br />Within Europe, so many Nazis stayed put after their movement's downfall, especially Austria, it is a total joke. Plenty more got exfiltrated to Argentina, Uruguay etc. with the Vatican's help and blessing (do a search on "La route des rats", in English "Ratlines"). In the name national reconciliation and such, investigations were never pushed far, only few people got executed... And then, everything was shushed. People stopped mentioning things, everybody wanted to forget. And then the 60s prosperity kicked in and peope moved on.<br /><br />"These are very bad, very wrong, comments and should not have been made so carelessly." <br /><br />What makes you think they were careless?<br />You are entitled to your views, but rest assured that I am also entitled to mine and you would be surprised how closer to reality I am.<br />You may want to grab a history book or two, I recommand Annie Lacroix-Riz, but most importantly, get some real FIRST-HAND accounts (not governmental propaganda). There are still people alive who can tell you.<br />At least, I do have some in my family and among my in-laws.<br /><br />It is strongly held beliefs such as the ones you detailed above that prevent people from understanding what exactly happened recently in Norway all the while creating the very conditions for all of it to happen again.<br />The real nazis were, and still are allowed to go under the radar while everyone "commemorates".<br /><br />Now, here is not the place for suc hdiscussions anyways, back to cycling...Montrealizehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08689176985812848399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-13433184562964044412011-08-11T22:20:58.821-04:002011-08-11T22:20:58.821-04:00@ Anonymous 8:36
"Millions of Europeans, and...@ Anonymous 8:36<br /><br />"Millions of Europeans, and Russians, died fighting Nazism." <br /><br />Right.<br />Yet, just as many people if not more didn't do a damn against it and even praised it with passion. Plenty a nazi/collabo went on to live a very peaceful and quiet life ever after and were never bothered.<br /><br />"The French, for the most part, detested the invading German army"<br /><br />False. The majority didn't care or composed quite ok with the nazis, turned a blind eye to what happened. This belief is the result of propaganda. Their ego was hust by the defeat though, this for sure.<br /><br />"and still energetically celebrate the anniversaries of when they got kicked out."<br /><br />Again, propaganda. <br />That's just for the record, for the image. This reversal of posture only started when it became clear the americans were going to come to the rescue (even though their intervention was purely economically motivated).<br />THEN all the rats started coming out of their hidings and a humongous movement of later-day resistants, and courageous fighters of the 25th hour.<br /><br />However, most great industrial conglomerates of the day (plenty still in business) profiteered like there was no tomorrw. <br />Heck, ever Henry Ford did, with a Furher picture on his desk, and he was across the pond so imagine those in situ!<br /><br />"And the Resistance (not resistants) were, through their immense courage, instrumental in helping to kick them out."<br /><br />Oh, "Resistance" is the name of the "movement". "Resistants" are the people. I am talking here about the people.<br /><br />Resistants were nothing but small groups of terrorists. What transforms mere terrorists into heroes is whether their cause wins in the eyes of History. <br />The Resistants were a tiny group of people who faught guerilla style. That's it. Put a bomb here. Sabotage a phone line here. Intercept messages. Etc. ETA or Zapatista style. Nothing more. They had plenty of courage but limited means. They had everybody against them, starting with their very own countrymen.<br />They, on their own would never have kicked the Nazis out. <br />Fate had it that they won because the US found it in their interest to step into the affair. They were on the good side of History and they are heroes now. Otherwise, they would have passed into History as one of the many "groupuscules" claiming to fight for freedom but who lost. History is written by the winners, always.<br /><br />I am glad by the way that things came out the way they did, otherwise I would not be here and I would never have met my husband (even though, given that some in his family practiced "horizontal collaboration" maybe they would have come ahead anyways).<br /><br />Yet, this does not mean that my feelings about the issue of Nazism should change anything to the facts and reality.Montrealizehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08689176985812848399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-91430769551274662092011-08-11T21:24:23.863-04:002011-08-11T21:24:23.863-04:00Many Jews and others fled to the "Free Zone&q...<i>Many Jews and others fled to the "Free Zone" by bike, for example, the constructeur Narcisse.</i><br /><br />That's how the creators of Curious George escaped from Paris to Spain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-39119535195005028002011-08-11T20:08:20.951-04:002011-08-11T20:08:20.951-04:00I find both to be true....I can't afford a car...I find both to be true....I can't afford a car, but it's also pleasurable to bike. In these times of poverty, I escape by pedaling, but I also get my stuff done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-17310522730950243202011-08-11T19:52:53.592-04:002011-08-11T19:52:53.592-04:00Escape is mostly what I use my bicycle for! I'...Escape is mostly what I use my bicycle for! I've read that some folks like horseback riding, but cycling is lots more affordable and can be practiced in public places.<br /><br />I find walking seems medieval in comparison and doesn't really offer the same sort of escape as cycling.<br /><br />:0)jnhttp://www.johnnez.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-16579233811558817962011-08-11T19:41:47.945-04:002011-08-11T19:41:47.945-04:00I'm totally escaping on my bike. Though I love...I'm totally escaping on my bike. Though I love cycling anyway it has kept me sane during this time of uncertainty in our nation. Several of my family members and friends have been hit by unemployment, housing loss, or reduced income [or a combination of these]. Everyone I talk to is worried about the future. We all need something to ground us and keep us going. For me its my bicycles.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-7956662654698937432011-08-11T18:22:52.056-04:002011-08-11T18:22:52.056-04:00Cycling in Paris during the German occupation was ...Cycling in Paris during the German occupation was multi-faceted:<br /><br />- It served as transportation as no gasoline was available. There even were bicycle taxis.<br /><br />- Many Jews and others fled to the "Free Zone" by bike, for example, the constructeur Narcisse.<br /><br />- For many avid cyclists, cycling clubs became support networks. They helped each other procure the goods needed for daily life, they organized rides to the country to barter for food, and they competed as a sort of "inner emigration," to distract themselves from the daily hardships in the company of people they could trust.<br /><br />My friend Paulette Porthault told me that it was a very hard time, but also a time of joy as they helped one another and found out who truly was a friend. See also<br /><br />http://janheine.wordpress.com/2011/08/02/the-aunt/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-52897074628281995292011-08-11T14:23:39.474-04:002011-08-11T14:23:39.474-04:00"...to reduce anxiety..." Biking certai..."...to reduce anxiety..." Biking certainly helps with that. I recommend to everyone to ride your bike to the dentist. Then you can keep on smiling while the cavitron is having fun inside of your mouth. (Real life experience shared.)Micheal Bluehttp://www.joyofbicyclecommuting.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-32108677866379666222011-08-11T12:50:58.533-04:002011-08-11T12:50:58.533-04:00"Is it the romance of the object in the age o..."Is it the romance of the object in the age of information...or just the collective abandonment of larger ambitions?" (http://catandgirl.com/?p=2583)Mattnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-72080004467705626312011-08-11T12:43:00.220-04:002011-08-11T12:43:00.220-04:00Velouria said...
"There is an undercurrent of...Velouria said...<br />"There is an undercurrent of hysteria in both the commercial, political and personal focus on the bicycle we see today that goes beyond practical concerns and even aesthetic interests."<br /><br />Very astute and accurate observation, Velouria.Walt Dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-60138744076367217532011-08-11T11:25:53.617-04:002011-08-11T11:25:53.617-04:00I certainly agree with you-choosing to ride a bicy...I certainly agree with you-choosing to ride a bicycle is a way to escape from some very troubling current realities, both social and personal. When you hop on your bicycle, you neither have to consume gas (thus contributing to the global demand for oil) nor pay for it yourself (thus decreasing your own assets, which, for many people, decreases overall well-being). And riding your bicycle, particularly in the city, involves so much concentration that it allows you to escape from whatever may be bothering you, albeit temporarily. <br /><br />I agree that the current obsession with cycling is just that: an obsession, which by its very nature contains an element of hysteria. But I wonder how much of that is escape, and how much of it is other things. I see the cycling community as a kind of identity group, and I believe that being a part of a group is very desirable for some/most people.<br /> <br />Being a cyclist, at least for some people, implies that you have a certain set of political or social beliefs and personal attributes. A part of me thinks that cycling is not just something you do, but something you are. <br /><br />Anyway, thanks for this interesting post!Monethttp://www.stripesandsolidssewing.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-87178028366076524132011-08-11T11:03:04.678-04:002011-08-11T11:03:04.678-04:00Hmmm, I see what you are saying to a certain degre...Hmmm, I see what you are saying to a certain degree, but still I find something distatsteful about the whole idea of something being "Trendy" Is there a trend? Well certainly, but is it a fashion concious "me too" mentality or is it mearly a by-product of current social, environmental and economic climate? I tend to think the later! I was born at the tail end of the Baby boom, but well before the Me genertation, Generation X, etc. My generation was one that worshiped the automobile and many of us embraced the freedom that was embodied by getting our drivers License. Kids today don't really care to drive, especially if they have somebody to do it for them! Let's face it, these days driving a car is an expensive responibility! I understand it! Before I had a car I skateboarded and biked around, my parents where happy for me to get my drivers Lisence so I could take my little sister to school and they could be relieved of that responsibility! Another reason I think many people are taking to transportaional cycling, is that many people who are loosing their jobs are at an age where they can technically take early retirement, but they are not really ready to "retire". You see them working at Home Depot or Walmart, etc. Many of these people are former professionals who still see the need to have a job, but don't want the pressure cooker or don't need a high paying job, just a little something to supplement their incomes that's not stressful. The fact that it's fun and maybe reminds them of their younger days and is good for you are probably just the icing on the cake!<br /><br />MASMOJOAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com