tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post8586135863198194363..comments2024-03-18T08:41:35.438-04:00Comments on Lovely Bicycle!: On Bicycle Pricing and Its DiscontentsVelouriahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comBlogger93125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-67596881419461666692017-04-16T15:20:15.460-04:002017-04-16T15:20:15.460-04:00I think, in the Netherlands, at least, it's be...I think, in the Netherlands, at least, it's because they sell enough of them for it to be worth it, and because the focus is on getting from point A to point B. They want a bike to be comfortable, reliable, and straightforward. The reliability is helped by having internal hubs, hub or bottle-generator lights, and full chaincases, and since that's what people want to ride and ask for in the stores, that's the majority of what gets made.Amandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12119977983352617582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-80769292644749810342013-04-26T11:30:54.252-04:002013-04-26T11:30:54.252-04:00Hey do you have any comments on http://www.critica...Hey do you have any comments on http://www.criticalcycles.com/, I'm thinking on the 7 speed step-thruAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-18897658755207660362013-02-04T17:22:59.356-05:002013-02-04T17:22:59.356-05:00There is a sweet spot when it comes to buying a bi...There is a sweet spot when it comes to buying a bike. I think it's around $1,500. That's the point at which you can get a decent frame and decent components. I wouldn't want to go any lower than Tiagra or Apex on a road bike-- I'm unfamiliar with mountain bike or hybrid bike components, though I have Shimano X9 shifters/derailleurs on my recumbent. I don't mean to imply that spending $2K or more is a waste, as you can get great features by spending more $$$, but at $1,500 you know you have a decent bike that will give you years of reliable service. <br /><br />If you spend much less, you make noticeable trade-offs, but a savvy buyer can probably get a decent bike on sale for $1,000 or so (but might be happier with a $2K bike picked up for $1,500!).amazernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-46018751825450949042012-10-24T21:31:54.101-04:002012-10-24T21:31:54.101-04:00Okay, this is what I want to know (long question:)...Okay, this is what I want to know (long question:) First, I'm a bike industry lifer, hobbyist framebuilder, and for an American, ride quite a lot. My wife and I have 9 bikes between us. One of hers used to be a Bianchi Milano. Great bike--aluminum frame, 7 speed internal hub, good everything. Not real fancy by enthusiast standards maybe but a really excellent job of putting a useful AND enjoyable machine together right out of the box. I have a shop, work on everything from Walmart crap to Campy 11 speed equipped fantasy fulfillment objects. Why does a department store bike in the US have to be a cheap, very very bad copy of an expensive bike store bike? I know what parts and frames cost wholesale. I have a more than vague idea of what frames cost OEM out of China or Taiwan. Why on earth can't Walmart's bike buyer do a $250 knockoff of wifey's old Milano--it could have an aluminum frame, 3 speed coaster brake hub, front rim or disc brake, maybe some nice fenders, AND THE BLOODY THING WOULD ACTUALLY BE A USEFUL TRANSPORTATION DEVICE as well as if designed by a non-moron, handle well enough to be enjoyable enough to ride. Why can't/won't they? Are they wilfully defrauding their bike customers or are they just ignorant?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-33189522260643815732012-01-11T13:36:05.420-05:002012-01-11T13:36:05.420-05:00Don't disparage cheap bikes! But if you buy ch...Don't disparage cheap bikes! But if you buy cheap bikes, keep it somple.<br /><br />I've probably owned 20 bikes in my life, from a 1940s transport to touring and racing bikes. One of my favourite bikes at the moment is a single speed that I bought new for $270. The components are not great, and the bike may not last forever, but it looks fine, handles wonderfully and got me to love single speeds again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-74316322361574139582012-01-11T12:16:28.151-05:002012-01-11T12:16:28.151-05:00In the spirit of full disclosure, I work for a bic...In the spirit of full disclosure, I work for a bicycle manufacturer.<br /><br />When anyone asks me, personally, which bike is best, I impart one piece of advice: buy the best frame that you can afford. Don't get hung up on derailleurs, shifters, or wheels - focus on the ride characteristics of the frame. You can upgrade everything BUT not how a frame rides.<br /><br />Go to a bike shop that lets you take long (1/2 hour or more) test rides. Ride your dream bike. Ride a bike slightly higher priced than your budget. Ride the bike in your budget. You should be able to tell the difference in ride quality - acceleration, climbing, descending, cornering, compliance - by taking each bike on the same route, one after another.<br /><br />At that point, you have a decision to make. Accept your budget limitations, save a little more, look for a used bike, or save a lot more. <br /><br />Almost as important as choosing the best frame for your budget is working with a bike shop that knows how to fit you properly on the bike you have chosen. If you fit comfortably for your riding style (fitness level, flexibility, unique measurements), you will enjoy riding your bike more, regardless of whether it is your ideal bike.<br /><br />The more you ride, the more you'll know how "dialed in" of a bike you'll desire. With a new dream, you can find ways to save for your next upgrade or a custom-built model.<br /><br />In the meantime, get out and ride and don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good!Brent Cohrshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17171566289226956031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-52580854777195867132012-01-10T12:02:38.849-05:002012-01-10T12:02:38.849-05:00The government of the UK today announced plans to ...The government of the UK today announced plans to build a new railway for trains reaching 350 km/h, High Speed 2 (after HS1, the train track to Paris). I like both trains and bicycles and I find the same skepticism about fast trains as about expensive bicycles. Lots of people can't stomach it because real men drive.Erik Sandblomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14411108063216855210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-43742168416286889972012-01-10T03:20:23.260-05:002012-01-10T03:20:23.260-05:00Here's an angle Kent, Jan, Velouria and none o...Here's an angle Kent, Jan, Velouria and none of the commenters seem to have covered. In March 2008 I bought a new bike for AU$399 base price, and optioned it up with rear rack, pump, muguards/fenders, bell & blinkie to a total of AU$513. I could have spent half that on a chain store bike, and what I bought was at the lower end of the medium price range. Given the near parity of the US and AU dollar over the past few years I guess the prices are pretty comparable. <br /><br />Over almost 4 years problems were one flat tyre and one allen screw getting loose - both easy fixes. The wheels are still true, the gears and brakes work perfectly. I have replaced one set of brake blocks and just bought two new tyres for $100. I have a chain breaker and some other tools so can do some of my own maintenance.<br /><br />The new bike was a result of my previous ride being stolen - a second hand 12 speed steel frame which I had been using almost daily for 16 years. <br /><br />I have a short commute. It is quicker to cycle than to drive so I ride almost every day. Car parking where I work is $8 per day, $2.50 if you win a spot in the monthly ballot for one of the places in the basement. Bicycle parking is free, secure, in the basement. <br /><br />At say 200 working days a year, over almost 4 years parking would cost about $6000 if I won a basement spot a few times. That does not count cost of petrol / gasoline, and wear & tear on the car. My saving on parking alone is around $5,350. <br /><br />On this I could have bought something a lot "better" at triple the price and still come out thousands to the good. If I were doing brevets, touring etc it would be justified but I'm not. I'm riding to work and round to the local shopping centre for milk and bread.Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10185507056462399553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-80709176726828023442012-01-09T15:12:38.420-05:002012-01-09T15:12:38.420-05:00If you look at galleries such as at at Bruce Gordo...If you look at galleries such as at at Bruce Gordon, you'll notice that a majority of the custom market are for people who require a geometry different from average. Especially today, which most large manufacturers of bicycles don't care about anyone over 6 feet tall. However in the process of ordering a custom bike, I learned more than ever, and the price for a Saso frame with Columbus, Tange & TT tubing, lugs & fillet brazing, built by a famous frame builder with 35 years under his belt, for $1600 I got frame, fork, headset, stem & seatpost. Hardly a high price considering. Breezer's new Venturi steel racing bike costs more (relatively, as it's a complete bike). <br /><br />As far as aesthetics, I disagree with Kent's idea that once a nice bike is acquired that one will be too careful with it. While there's always people who think their bike is more of an art piece than a riding machine, most aren't concerned with scratches. Good scratches tell stories, and besides, since the frame builder often also does the painting, re-paints aren't as expensive as they would be otherwise. <br /><br />The fear of it being stolen is also overplayed, I think. The nice thing about an expensive bike is that it's normally insured through a homeowner or renters policy. The only painful part is the wait time for another custom.Courtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-47189658519917297232012-01-09T14:56:56.502-05:002012-01-09T14:56:56.502-05:00Anonymous @1:59, I certainly have never ridden a c...Anonymous @1:59, I certainly have never ridden a custom bike designed for myself, but as a shop mechanic, I've gotten to ride on a lot of other folks custom bikes while doing tuneups. <br />Not helpful by means of comparison, for the most part, but I can add that we have a few customers in my size range (over 6 feet and north of 250lbs) who have custom or high end road bikes. Having a frame designed from the ground up for long tubes under high stress is definitely hard to beat, especially while going uphill!Matt DeBlasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17666227904684289223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-27879561882141638502012-01-09T14:30:02.141-05:002012-01-09T14:30:02.141-05:00@Anonymous at 10:28 said: "Likely, if someone...@Anonymous at 10:28 said: "Likely, if someone adds to their bike budget any of the amounts to be saved by cutting out: cable TV, or internet, or eating out, or the new iPhone, or another non-necessity - for just a year - or god forbid a car - they could get the better bike."<br /><br />What if you would rather have a bike AND any or all of the things you mention? Who said owning a bike should require sacrifice? I understand that for some biking is a cause, but for most people riding a bike is just fun.<br /><br />if you have $500 would you suggest that you forego riding until you can save up $1,000-$2,000 or should you start where you can? <br /><br />I don't doubt that riding a custom bike gives a smoother ride than an inexpensive one. But whether it is 10x better is questionable <br /><br />It seems that people who have $1500 bikes are also always trading them in for something new and something better. People are sometimes disappointed with their custom ride as well. Maybe because at that price people are looking for that perfect ride. Maybe there is no perfection.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-26166375619628071232012-01-09T13:59:15.336-05:002012-01-09T13:59:15.336-05:00one thought i had was most people, including the o...one thought i had was most people, including the ones commenting here, have probably never ridden a custom bike designed specifically for their bodies and designed as an integrated unit (fenders, lighting etc. all fitting together). Not having that experience makes it hard to comment on Jan's position. He's saying something is so great, but if I have never experienced it how can I know if it is as good or worth it as he says...?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-29586418377928033872012-01-09T13:47:55.295-05:002012-01-09T13:47:55.295-05:00A friend and I went bike shopping recently. Lots ...A friend and I went bike shopping recently. Lots of shops only had bikes starting at about the $900 (minimum) range. It's a false idea one cannot get a good bike for around $500. KHS and Kona for example make really good beginner/intermediate bikes with decent components. Guess who had the best selection, my local LBS. Not the big shops. <br /><br />I understand about more expensive bikes. I went from a used $500 bike to a $1,100 bike years ago - after I put many, many miles on the less expensive one (I had it for 5 years before I upgraded) and saved up for the new one. While I'd like to convince more people to buy the more expensive bike straight away, lots of people don't have the financial ability to say "Hey! I need a bike, and I have $1,500 to spend!" Good bikes are important and I think you come around to that conclusion in your post, but it started out rough...leaving the impression that a $500 bike can only be junk.AJL, Seattlenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-43907884629635092392012-01-09T13:04:52.345-05:002012-01-09T13:04:52.345-05:00Quite simple for me. The cost is whatever I can af...Quite simple for me. The cost is whatever I can afford. <br />The fundamental requirement is comfort. Then its just a question of fitness for purpose.<br /><br />All jolly good fun and a great investment at any price, particulary in comparison with most transport alternatives.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00272755559589366573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-23133765098100905472012-01-09T12:39:36.663-05:002012-01-09T12:39:36.663-05:00From Sheldon Brown's website:
Le beau est aus...From Sheldon Brown's website:<br /><br />Le beau est aussi utile que l'utile -- Victor Hugo<br />(The beautiful is as useful as the useful)<br /><br />-TheresaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-85863283599083958712012-01-09T12:34:30.802-05:002012-01-09T12:34:30.802-05:00This is definitely one of those "no right ans...This is definitely one of those "no right answer" discussions. A $5,000+ custom job is certainly nice to have, and worth every penny if you've got the money, but some people can suit their needs on a $100 beater with a good tuneup, it depends on the situation. <br />I didn't actually get the impression that Jan was trying to say "everyone needs a custom bike," he was just saying "they're nice and worth the expense," a statement I wholeheartedly support, even though I can't afford such a thing at the moment.<br /><br />There can be a lot of good options for the bike-buyer on a budget, if they're saavy or have help from someone who is, including looking for a bike with a quality frame and mediocre parts, and upgrading gradually as they wear, buying used or buying vintage (although in my experience that can be a bit of a minefield, many vintage bikes have... um "quirks" and nonstandard components that can create headaches for the novice when the time comes to fix or replace parts).Matt DeBlasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17666227904684289223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-54453428198227258362012-01-09T11:54:34.635-05:002012-01-09T11:54:34.635-05:00Jean - I got back into cycling after a 10 year pos...Jean - I got back into cycling after a 10 year post college break when I made the decision to give up owning a car.<br /><br />With all the money saved giving up a car and all the related costs - insurance, gas, maintenance, parking - getting a custom does not seem all that extravagent. I like the fact a person I met and spoke with made part of his living building my bike.<br /><br />I did recently sell one bike to bring me to a bike I ride every day and a bike I ride for pure recreation. The decision to sell had a lot more to do with me thinking about moving to a smaller, more centrally located apartment than being against materialism.<br /><br />Most of the one less car cyclists I know in Chicago have multiple bikes, some bordering on obssessively so.Matthew Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10408057524387021992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-50247769008025167282012-01-09T11:53:57.194-05:002012-01-09T11:53:57.194-05:00lot's of POV on this subject already, but why ...lot's of POV on this subject already, but why not throw in my thoughts as well....<br />i do believe the world would be better if more folks biked -- and i hope it happens.<br />i wish inexpensive/practical bikes were easily available to all who want them -- it is possible, but requires some searching and experience.<br />after 30 years of riding only used and cobbled together bikes, i'm in the process of buying my first custom, mainly for the fit and because i've finally got it out of my system all of the things i'm not :) i also made a choice to go through a lengthy fitting process and let the builder design the bike. this will be my 'car' not my precious baby so all decisions were about efficiency, practicality, and durability. i didn't scrimp on components, though i'm poor. <br />i don't think 'looks' should have much to do with this process of deciding on a bike, whether inexpensive or expensive.<br />i don't mind folks having expensive bikes -- or expensive anything for that matter -- but i do get 'riled' up when they show them off. it's the attitude. if one needs to tell the world they've got something special, or that they're special, it can diminish the joy of being around that person. i get a lot of pleasure seeing something well used and extra pleasure scrapping off the dirt and finding quality materials and craftsmanship underneath. <br />sometimes, reading these blogs, one can get easily overwhelmed by all the discussion and options and begin to think that any choice one makes may be the wrong choice b/c there may just be something 'more perfect' or appropriate out there. . . .self doubt can haunt and paralyze. . . .one becomes hyper-sensitive to the slightest variation in this or that b/c of what they just read, and on and on. it makes me wonder whether these can be part of the problem or part of the solution .... some folks just find a bike to get around and then get around on that bike. they're practical, non-judgemental types and don't sweat the smallest of details with regard to their transportation or others. they just want it to work properly and be reasonably comfortable and they happily go about their day.<br />if one is a newbie to using a bike for transportation i think it's important to know as best as one can the type of daily riding they'll do and the conditions they might expect.....a transportation bike does not necessarily mean a upright, igh, fat tired bike. buy the best quality you can afford, recognizing that it just may be a used bike, from a quality shop or person. sometimes a couple bikes or variations on the one bike are needed. learn how to care for it, whether that means doing your own work or just how everything fits together and works. keep it simple.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-45076315357536462522012-01-09T10:28:24.827-05:002012-01-09T10:28:24.827-05:00Both those articles are great. I am used to basic ...Both those articles are great. I am used to basic bikes and follow Kent's model more, myself, but I also understand Jan's point of view.<br /><br />It's too bad the used bike market doesn't have lots of ready to go transport bikes, because used bikes can last and be very good value. About the best you can do is a mountain bike with a rack, that you can add fenders to - or an old 3-speed that you can relace into an aluminum rim, and possibly some of your other upgrade options. That isn't so bad at least for commutes under five miles.<br /><br />I wince at price tags as much as anyone, but really, it's not so sad that $500 can't necessarily get you a bike for transportation, given that inexpensive cars that border on novelty items are twenty times that amount. As you have noted before, people may need to shift priorities. Likely, if someone adds to their bike budget any of the amounts to be saved by cutting out: cable TV, or internet, or eating out, or the new iPhone, or another non-necessity - for just a year - or god forbid a car - they could get the better bike.<br /><br />Too much to ask for a means of transportation and so much more?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-58699466977713182702012-01-09T10:05:24.172-05:002012-01-09T10:05:24.172-05:00This is very interesting, and is really about so m...This is very interesting, and is really about so much more than expensive vs inexpensive. Way up top, commenter David Lewis touched on what to me starts to get into the crux of the matter, especially going forward into a future of peak oil and other scarcities: when will we start making bicycles again here in the U.S.? I know all the reasons it "can't" work, but at some point it will have to work.<br /><br />Richard Risemberg makes another interesting point about status. I just snatched "Trading Up: The New American Luxury" from my library discard pile. It came out in 2003 and has wonderful chapters like Increased Home Values and Equity; Reduced Cost of Living and More Discretionary Income; A BMW in Every Driveway? and many more. Not sure the status thing will be with us much longer, at least in relation to consumer goods.<br /><br />But with regard to that viewpoint, back in April 1994, I did a special Commuter Issue in my magazine, In Traffic, The Metro Cycling Journal. One feature was a review of commuter bikes at various price points. Here's the final bike review:<br /><br />"And now, ladies and gentlemen, if you will pardon the analogy, the Cadillac of commuter bikes, the Cannodale C2000. Direct, live from the press release: 'Cannondale has unveiled an innovative, accessory-laden bicycle that provides an alternative to the automobile for around-town transportation and commuting...[the] 21-speed C2000 comes fully loaded with a rear carrier rack, waterbottle cages, kickstand, bell, lights--and most notably--biodegradable wooden fenders. More than a novelty, the wooden fenders offer protection against spray and dirt, while also making a reasoned statement about environmental priorities. Priced at $1,699.000, the C2000 brings mountain bike technology to the urban jungle in the form of an adjustable, shock-absorbing Headshok-CMT...' <br /><br />Ah, back up a second there fellas. Did you say $1,699.00? You did... You know what kind of shock absorbers I need right now. Sticker shock absorbers. (Still, it is under $1,700.00)<br />Actually, the feeling here is that the Cannondale C2000 is a great idea. If we're going to take the bicycle as a serious means of transportation, the more price ranges the better. The day that Wall Streeters are trying to top one another with who rode in on the fancier bike..."Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01285886035638697215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-32054048002093288942012-01-09T07:54:09.985-05:002012-01-09T07:54:09.985-05:00@V - In my case, I have four bikes, with costs (pr...@V - In my case, I have four bikes, with costs (pre-customization/repair) of $0, $150 (1985 dollars), $200, and $2000 (list -- pre-fenders, pre-chaincase, pre-Rohloff, cha-ching!). The Honda car was a good deal used at $3000 11 years ago, before it lost its AC, power steering, and speedometer, and part of its body to rust. If I had a new car, I'd be terrified of it getting damaged; might as well go buy a $20,000 hunk of art and tape it to the hood of my Honda.<br /><br />What the $3500 bike does, is it goes. In the dark, in the weather, if I am wearing nice clothes, if I have to carry cargo, even as much as 200 lbs. What this does for me is I ride it; if I try an experiment (platform pedals, no clips or cleats or anything) and discover that I ride the bike more, then that is a win. Not sure what I would get out of a custom frame; I'm pretty happy on most of my bikes most of the time, and to the extent that I'm not, it's usually something stupid like picking a stem that is too long.<br /><br />I've been experimenting with the $0 bike to see how capable it can be made for much less money (now has lights and a front frame rack; the 3-speed hub is flaky in the lowest gear) but the lhs cottered crank sometimes snags my pants cuff, and I don't think they make snow tires in the old Raleigh size, and to me "1-3/8" is still a skinny tire. And the parts (good tires, new front wheel, nice saddle, taller stem, frame lock, frame rack) do add up pretty fast.dr2chasehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16320828055999939449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-73321632984496712422012-01-09T05:56:24.828-05:002012-01-09T05:56:24.828-05:00Why I can understand perfectly why someone would w...Why I can understand perfectly why someone would want a $5000 bike I can only agree with Heine's durability arguments up to a certain level (I agree on performance and aesthetics). Frame failures is not something I expect to see more in a cheap bike. The manufacturer making a cheap bike will simply make the frame a bit heavier. The steel and aluminium alloys used for bike tubing are not expensive, thicker tubing should be easier to weld which translates into work cost savings.<br />I don't expect the welds to break either, however the finish of the welds will be different. A custom maker can of course make a bike to fit. For some people this alone makes it worth it, for those with standard dimensions this is a non issue as production bikes fit like a glove. Apart from the frame and maybe the fork a lot of parts on the bike are going to come from group-sets from the standard manufacturers. I have seen few people argue that a Dura-Ace group would be more durable than say a Tiagra group. Actually I am pretty sure the cassette on the Tiagra group would last much longer than the Dura Ace cassette, while the seals on the Dura-Ace hubs might be a bit better. The Dura Ace group would weigh less though, and the finish is superior. The wheels are a different issue. I doubt there would be material failure with the cheap parts, however the cheap wheels will be heavier and might benefit from a bit of tensioning (which you could pay your lbs mechaninc to do if you can't do it yourself). The tires are actually the part I wouldn't skimp on, but there is very little custom about good tires and you can get very good tires for just a little bit extra.<br />So in the end what you do get should be a better (durability and stiffness)/weight ratio, custom dimensions which may be very important, or a moot point depending on the cyclist, and a higher level of finish.<br />With bikes like many other things there is very much a level of diminishing returns and you don't have to spend that much more to get a very high degree of durability. The main factors with regards to durability will be the care the bike receives and not the manufacturing.<br />Regarding what other people think of owning several or very expensive bikes vs owning one rather cheap bike, it is the usual difference between the hobbyist and people just using the item as a practical tool. People with lots of cameras, watches, guns, knives, tools, shoes or handbags get similar reactions. For the hobbyist it isn't a question of what is practical and cost effective, while for the non-hobbyists it is.Johan Tnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-69090959086505126742012-01-09T03:57:31.993-05:002012-01-09T03:57:31.993-05:00Look at completed listings on ebay. Look at what d...Look at completed listings on ebay. Look at what doesn't sell at all. Watch collectors trying to raise cash by bringing out real stuff, the prizes they were going to keep.<br /><br />It's in all categories. It's been late coming to vintage cycles and now it's here. I just sold an iconic atelier built Bernard Carre fully worthy of Jan Heine's stable for what the saddle alone would've brought two years back.<br /><br />There's always been a phenomenon in economic downturns where yacht collectors buy cars instead, car collectors buy motorcycles, motorcycle collectors buy bicycles, bicycle collectors buy ?roller skates?. This is not where it's at this time. For many many items there is simply no bid no market no price. Lower value items can't be stored and go to dumpster.<br /><br />In the bike world where precious few can look at, for example, a Panasonic built 80s Raleigh and spot that yes, it really is as well built as a 3Rensho of the same period, much better than current Toyo, all sorts of genuinely useful and beautiful bikes are going for scrap metal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-72720854953393495182012-01-09T01:49:20.720-05:002012-01-09T01:49:20.720-05:00Jean, the irony is overwhelming!Jean, the irony is overwhelming!Ground Round Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09103163385322185034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-73789543601036414542012-01-09T01:22:15.799-05:002012-01-09T01:22:15.799-05:00@Ground Round Jim - I actually totally agree. I e...@Ground Round Jim - I actually totally agree. I enjoy my career and far be it for me to pass judgement on another person's personal choices, but in my private life my husband and I share one older car that we purchased well used and I ride my little folding bike to get around town. I strapped a bright pink file crate to the back rack so it's better suited for grocery runs. Ooh, and I just got my first "project bike" - vintage mixte off of Craigslist that seems to have done a whole lot of nothing for most of its life. I don't have a clue what I'm doing, but I've got a bike shop down the street and a Velo Orange wish list. It's beautiful! It's the color of black cherries! Sorry, I'm absurdly excited.Jeannoreply@blogger.com