tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post7370179774551881738..comments2024-03-27T05:14:23.738-04:00Comments on Lovely Bicycle!: Roadbike Shopping ComplexitiesVelouriahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comBlogger98125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-10947103854952065652012-08-25T23:55:47.430-04:002012-08-25T23:55:47.430-04:00I realize that I'm very late to this party, bu...I realize that I'm very late to this party, but I'm shopping for my first road bike and the whole toe overlap issue worries me. I need a 54cm frame, so I think I should be able to find something where the problem is minimized.<br /><br />But my question is this... how can you tell from the geometry specs if it will be a problem or not? Is there a minimum front-center measurement or wheelbase that you look for? And Trek doesn't even provide front-center measurements on their WSD models. Just hoping you might be able to give me some tricks for narrowing it down so I don't have to spend the rest of my life at the LBS riding every conceivable model.<br /><br />Thanks so much!<br />-CatEcoCatLadyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15704811319510740473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-16990969545217811962012-02-29T13:07:34.479-05:002012-02-29T13:07:34.479-05:00Yes I took the tie to read this thread. I find it...Yes I took the tie to read this thread. I find it interesting that many people just do not listen. If you dont enjoy STI shifters than that is ok...My wife and I looked hard to find our road bikes. We wanted speed matched with comfort and the desire to ride the long haul. With that search there was only two bikes that fit our desires. One is not made anymore and it required an exhaustive search for a used one on Craigslist. However, we have never regreted that path. We ride Trek Pilot 5.0 These are fully carbon bikes. In your case you would have to remove the STI shifters and go with Bar Cons. In the process I would add inline breaks at the cross bar. The pilot puts you a bit more upright relaxing the angle a bit. While Trek has brought back the Pilot, they do not make the full carbon bike that we own.Kevin MacLachlannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-13892524977763733052012-02-28T11:25:52.354-05:002012-02-28T11:25:52.354-05:00I can't accept free bikes. But Seven sponsors ...I can't accept free bikes. But Seven sponsors me (see their banner) and would give me an industry insider type of deal. <br /><br />Surly owners seem pretty happy with their bikes!Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-388861403402798052012-02-28T11:10:08.053-05:002012-02-28T11:10:08.053-05:00I still think Seven should cut you a deal. I'...I still think Seven should cut you a deal. I'm sure they've gotten sales because of you. If I were interested in a true roadbike and had the budget for it, I'd at least try out a seven because of your blog. If they gave you a deal and you kept gushing about the bike they'd get more sales. Think about it Seven!MelissatheRagamuffinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-4699004708150283472012-02-28T10:59:52.409-05:002012-02-28T10:59:52.409-05:00The guys at Seven can't help you out? I mean ...The guys at Seven can't help you out? I mean after you gushed about their bike on this blog, I am sure they got sales from it. They really ought to give you a deal if not just outright give you a free bike.<br /><br />I think that even if you went into a bike shop, announced who you are, rode a bike, didn't buy it, but said how nice and helpful the sales staff is that it would still possibly help bring customers into their shop.<br /><br />I am 99% a bike commuter and that's all, but I have taken my Surly LHT on a couple of longer group rides now and I have no major complaints about how she did. The only place I wasn't able to keep pace with the people on actual road bikes was on hills, and I'm not sure that doesn't have to do with my level of fitness as opposed to my bicycle.<br /><br />Also about sizing: Miss Surly is a 58cm, and she is an absolutely perfect fit for me. I looked at a cyclocross bike that said it was 58cm, and it was too big for me.<br /><br />Though if I'm going to consider spending $1000 on a bike again, I'm probably going to buy another Surly and just outfit it differently from Miss Surly.MelissatheRagamuffinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-87759345526903373592012-02-27T20:53:18.225-05:002012-02-27T20:53:18.225-05:00I'm an older male and TCO is the first thing I...I'm an older male and TCO is the first thing I look for in a bike, although since I ride frames around 58 cm it is much easier to find one without the issue. I particularly like older road frames with the more relaxed geometry, like Cinellis from the 1960's as an example. The 1977 Sabatini I have is 58 cm with a 56 cm TT and still has enough clearance with large toe clips as it is built on the older Italian road frame geometries. It handles and rides nicely without being too sensitive. I was 22 when I purchased it and the lack of TCO made it much more enjoyable to ride.Brentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-6133879785503966822012-02-27T10:02:30.061-05:002012-02-27T10:02:30.061-05:00Campagnolo rocks! The hood shape and feel is the s...Campagnolo rocks! The hood shape and feel is the standard in my opinion.Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06344973801989281179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-49803440650195791982012-02-26T17:01:57.185-05:002012-02-26T17:01:57.185-05:00Road bikes handle like road bikes for a reason. S...Road bikes handle like road bikes for a reason. Some of the same design elements that make a road bike NOT a touring bike are the ones that can create toe overlap and a less compliant ride. <br /><br />You can't have your cake and eat it too.CBCo.http://www.carytownbikes.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-75316238729877414072012-02-26T16:36:32.938-05:002012-02-26T16:36:32.938-05:00I think to a large extent, the ideal race bike has...I think to a large extent, the ideal race bike has a great deal to do with the rider's adaptation and handling skills. There's a reason why, as people get older, even seasoned racers can find drop handle bikes uncomfortable. <br /><br />When I first started sprinting more seriously in my youth, I recall the initial discomfort I felt on using "spikes" (trainers with spikes) for the first time. It wasn't until sometime later that I realized how much of a difference they made, and my stride had adapted accordingly.<br /><br />I know this is not exactly a like-for-like analogy, however, performance sports are all about training, pushing beyond comfort levels, along with muscular and mental adaptation. <br /><br />Of course, the wrong size spikes would have compromised my performance in any case. I don't know if this is how you liken your quest, or whether it is partly about adaptation. After all, in the beginning, you were cycling just a town bike with seat lowered to a position where your feet were flat on the ground. Obviously, you would find that kind of seat position very uncomfortable now.<br /><br />Just a viewpoint -- I am no pro at cycling and geometry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-51882818402165100952012-02-26T14:30:17.327-05:002012-02-26T14:30:17.327-05:00I think you would do a lot better on a smaller-whe...I think you would do a lot better on a smaller-wheeled (e.g. 650b) frame. It lets the builder make the fit and steering right without creating TCO.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-81221210429123646642012-02-25T22:06:58.989-05:002012-02-25T22:06:58.989-05:00There are several ways it can be done, and it depe...There are several ways it can be done, and it depends on personal preferences to some extent. Maybe a topic for a separate post. But assuming 23mm tires, it is very doable.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-49596263842690281722012-02-25T21:53:32.039-05:002012-02-25T21:53:32.039-05:00Just wondering, how do you feel that TCO is solved...Just wondering, how do you feel that TCO is solved on a 52cm frame?Kylenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-41206675787509355802012-02-25T21:37:37.657-05:002012-02-25T21:37:37.657-05:00I wonder if you might have better using a 700c cyc...I wonder if you might have better using a 700c cyclocross frame with 650b wheels. The cross frames tend to have less bottom bracket drop, which the smaller wheel diameter would cancel out. Smaller wheels should also prevent the dreaded toe clip overlap?<br /><br />Just thinking out loud here...Bonehttp://www.bonius.com/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-22272135026131889452012-02-25T14:38:02.043-05:002012-02-25T14:38:02.043-05:00It sounds as if you already know that you want the...It sounds as if you already know that you want the Seven axiom. I'd say save up for it while putting out WTBs in the appropriate forums and watching ebay for used options (unless you think model changes between years could be an issue.<br />Maybe the place where you borrowed one earlier would be willing to sell you a frameset+veloce group to get the price down, especially if there are some of last years frames lying around you might be able to get a deal. I really think the Veloce group is the best deal on a groupset, just 400€ at German webshops, and that is with our extra sales taxes. Replacement cassettes are much cheaper for 10s as well. <br />If the Seven axiom has a place in your heart, see if you could fit it into your budget.(A used one should be half the price and a used frameset even cheaper, at least checking ebay buy it now options).<br />Would you really be happy with another bike or end up buying the Seven eventually anyway (having spent more money and less time on a bike you really want)?Johan Tnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-82183270854894208642012-02-25T14:15:38.723-05:002012-02-25T14:15:38.723-05:00just wondering b/c i've heard that makes a dif...just wondering b/c i've heard that makes a difference in handling over rough surfaces.....but know nothing about this stuff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-22533220919643236522012-02-25T12:27:23.605-05:002012-02-25T12:27:23.605-05:00Don't remember now, will try to re-measure. Th...Don't remember now, will try to re-measure. The BB is very low.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-68584336508069364402012-02-25T12:15:12.019-05:002012-02-25T12:15:12.019-05:00just curios here....do you know the BB drop on you...just curios here....do you know the BB drop on your Moser?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-42379085652931882102012-02-25T11:11:06.599-05:002012-02-25T11:11:06.599-05:00"A steel frame with skinny, thin-wall tubing ...<i>"A steel frame with skinny, thin-wall tubing is going to have far smoother ride than any of the carbon/alu bikes or your thicker-wall Moser for that matter. "</i><br /><br />I agree about the carbon/alu bikes, I tend not to like the ride quality much. My Moser however feels amazing over bumps and I have tried a number of high-end modern steel bikes that do not feel as good, even with fatter tires. This is the sort of thing that makes tubing rather mysterious to me, more so than geometry. <br /><br />I assure you that I did not enjoy shopping for a roadbike. I also urge you to consider that just because something seems simple and straightforward to one person, does not make it uniformly so for everyone. <br /><br />This post was not intended to solicit advice for myself. I know how to solve TCO issues on a 52cm frame at this point. My intent was simply to describe the experience I've had over the past year, and to point out that all these issues are not unique to me; I now get emails from readers (mostly women) quite frequently describing the same frustrations. Sure the natural response of those who do not experience the same frustrations might be to tell us we're overcomplicating things. But that does not magically change anything.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-12867347808916477032012-02-25T10:48:44.091-05:002012-02-25T10:48:44.091-05:00No no my current bike does not have toe overlap. T...No no my current bike does not have toe overlap. The handling is a little wacky at high speeds, it resists turning. <a href="http://lovelybike.blogspot.com/2012/01/new-old-moser-400-mile-assessment.html" rel="nofollow">This</a> is the bike.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-38950950208845622392012-02-25T10:12:23.122-05:002012-02-25T10:12:23.122-05:00Interesting thought -- an 853 ProTeam tubed bike w...Interesting thought -- an 853 ProTeam tubed bike would weigh roughly the same as an Axiom. With one-inch toptube, 14mm seatstays and 22mm chainstays it would flex a great deal more than any steel bike V has had so far. Which is to say it would definitely flex.<br />The Axiom is overbuilt and while V is clear she got some of the magic Ti ride it's not like she had all of it. 853 ProTeam plus skinny stays could be just as smooth riding. At least close.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-38670882530155029142012-02-25T07:12:29.378-05:002012-02-25T07:12:29.378-05:00I'm not making light of the difficulty some pe...I'm not making light of the difficulty some people might have in choosing the right road bike, but it really isn't that hard to do.<br /><br />Some people will take a long time to buy anything, especially as nowadays we are bombarded with technical information about every purchase, most of which can be safely ignored.<br /><br />I just don't want people getting the impression that cycling requires a lot of knowledge to do properly. It doesn't.petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09988347024466013018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-78439113460474826472012-02-25T03:48:06.568-05:002012-02-25T03:48:06.568-05:00I basically agree with "ptb" above; You&...I basically agree with "ptb" above; You're making this more difficult than it needs to be, unless of course you're just enjoying the "hunt".<br /><br />Though you're not a very experienced road bike rider you have ridden quite a few bikes and clearly identified what you want in your own bike. Now you can either choose the production bike that most closely matches what you want and modify it as desired, or have a custom bike made if you're willing to pay enough to avoid compromising. <br /><br />From a geometry perspective the only limiting factor is your TCO issue. There's certainly nothing woman-specific about a 52 x 53cm frame. You should also know what seat tube angle you need so that the effective front end length comes out right. But even this won't thin the herd much since most standard bikes have similar seat tube angles these days.<br /><br />The extended test ride is also unnecessary because you're actually just looking learn a couple things about the bike. The geometry can be measured or read in the literature so all you need is to see how it absorbs various kinds of bumps relative to the other contenders. Thus you just need a simple test ride protocol: saddle and bars adjusted reasonably well, tires pumped equally hard, ride repeatedly over various bumps and rougher surfaces. Do that with a few bikes and you'll begin to feel a difference.<br /><br />Perhaps you finally decide that no off the rack bike will suit you. In that case you certainly have enough information to safely extrapolate into a straightforward custom frame that dozens of builders would bee happy to make. No, you can't ride it before paying but it's also not voodoo. A steel frame with skinny, thin-wall tubing is going to have far smoother ride than any of the carbon/alu bikes or your thicker-wall Moser for that matter. Don't worry about torsional stiffness; Only a couple decades ago racers with many times your strength and power used to win world championships on bikes like this.<br /><br />Within the realm of racing bikes steering geometry is no mystery either. The rider compartment is already a known quantity. Click the HT angle back just enough to avoid TCO and choose a fork with a rake to get the trail right. An experienced builder will advise whether the chainstays should be a little longer to even out the weight distribution... but I doubt that'd be needed since smaller riders have relatively more weight on the front wheel anyway.<br /><br />But hey, maybe you're just having fun visiting bike shops and trying bikes.henryinamsterdamhttp://www.workcycles.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-52967408676646723002012-02-25T01:42:30.505-05:002012-02-25T01:42:30.505-05:00But still no luck with any modern bikes? The Apex ...But still no luck with any modern bikes? The Apex is nice because it's on so many bikes--so all the more to test ride! And not very expensive either (relatively).<br /><br />For me, I could just feel that the bike was right. I think it was from trying so many wrong ones! My arms just feel into place so perfectly, in every position on the bike, and the handling was just on.<br /><br />But I've never had problems with toe overlap, even at high speeds like that. That's one thing I guess you can't tell. I don't think I ever turn my wheel when cornering? Except maybe at low speeds?<br /><br />Maybe take short test rides up and down a steep hill and ride around in small circles to see how the bikes feel even in extreme situations? If that is practical near your shops. I guess that kind of thing is easier here in San Francisco where the terrain is so variable!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-13632724440114791992012-02-25T01:23:18.162-05:002012-02-25T01:23:18.162-05:00In my eyes the overlap is only a problem if riding...In my eyes the overlap is only a problem if riding fixed. My stoker, Dorte, dislike overlap on her single-bikes. We found a Thorn Audax mk III without it.IbisTouchehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13614731309995043960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-74056230890013361812012-02-25T00:27:17.431-05:002012-02-25T00:27:17.431-05:00Yup, I can use SRAM Apex (but prefer Campagnolo). ...Yup, I can use SRAM Apex (but prefer Campagnolo). <br /><br />So how do you know a roadbike is right? My Moser rebuild seemed perfect until I tried to corner at 30mph downhill on a group ride. Then not so much. Things like that you don't always discover right away.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.com