tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post495280426822738836..comments2024-03-27T05:14:23.738-04:00Comments on Lovely Bicycle!: Gunnar Bikes: the Accessible WaterfordVelouriahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comBlogger74125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-38997456613283116532012-09-29T12:06:49.338-04:002012-09-29T12:06:49.338-04:00Jonathon is dead on...a well-written response. I ...Jonathon is dead on...a well-written response. I own a crosshairs stock frame and it is one of the nicest riding bikes I've ever owned. For context, I also own a custom Rivendell Allrounder and Della Santa. The last couple of years I've really come to appreciate the straightforward practicality of Gunnar. The fact that they are U.S. made means a lot to me and I purposely saved a little longer this past summer so that I could get the Gunnar Sport (due to arrive shortly). And they are certainly tubing wise way better than a Surly or Soma quality frame. Does that mean Surly/Soma, etc. are bad? Not by any means. Great deals on quality steel. But Gunnar's are the best value in steel right now and hit that sweet spot between the full custom lugged, boutique, frames and the practical bargain bikes that Surly/Soma build. Good original post as well...Reno Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01191509884448110114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-74874450632437658562012-09-29T03:30:13.085-04:002012-09-29T03:30:13.085-04:00As a service manager at a shop in Los Angeles (and...As a service manager at a shop in Los Angeles (and a mechanic at several over the years), I've assembled a lot of custom Cross Checks, with some pretty high dollar price tags. And a lot of stock ones too. A fair number of Soma DCs too. <br /><br />I wanted a new, lighter on/off-road frame for shop rides and some cross racing I want to do this coming winter. I could have easily built up a Soma or Surly and had an excellent bike. And don't get me wrong, they are excellent bikes. However, I never felt that any of the frame offerings in the <br /><br />The real difference here is the frame people. I have a Crosshairs as one of my personal bikes, and it is miles above any of the "cross/commuter" options from Surly, Soma, Handsome, etc... <br /><br />The Gunnar uses much thinner tubing, which allows for a tuning of the rear end geometry (nice, stiff chainstays, with thinner, round seat stays that give you some comfort) and a very solid front triangle. If you add their excellent Crosshairs fork, you get an extremely comfortable ride and a fantastic response from the bike when you decide to put in some effort. It's not just that the bike is LIGHTER. The frame is designed to maximize comfort without sacrificing weight, stability, or power transfer. <br /><br />I was slightly leery of purchasing the frame and fork unridden (no nearby dealers with my size in stock to try), but I liked the tubeset, and everyone I talked to on the phone was helpful and un-pushy, and completely honest about their product. I must have had a dozen phone conversations with Waterford employees before pulling the trigger on the bike. Bike shop employees don't make a lot of money, and I wasn't about to part ways with my cash for something that I thought wouldn't be worth it. But I wanted American-made, couldn't afford a full custom frame, and found this excellent option. Even with shop employee pricing, this bike was more than worth what I paid for it, and I do feel like it was a steal for the enhancement in my rides, and for the satisfaction I got from supporting an American framebuilder.<br /><br />Sure, TIG-welded frames are "uninspiring", and we'd all love a custom Waterford, or to have any number of things that will get us to that perfect bike. But don't forget that riding the bike is the experience, and a "better" bike will only enhance the experience, not be it. Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09064928365294341750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-55496210848082022742012-09-26T14:28:19.769-04:002012-09-26T14:28:19.769-04:00And the key info in the differentiation is the &qu...And the key info in the differentiation is the "designer". A Boulder bike built by Waterford (I have one) is in the same $$ range as the Gunnar (I HAD one), yet feels far different. They won't build a Gunnar to Boulder specs, which is as it should be. Worth putting the Boulder into the mix if you're thinking of that level frame (and who isn't?)rural 14noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-89564291854184738172012-09-26T10:00:59.212-04:002012-09-26T10:00:59.212-04:00I would not buy a bike which I considered inferior...I would not buy a bike which I considered inferior for my needs because of a discount. But if I were indifferent between bikes and one of them cost less (either by virtue of an industry insider discount of some sort, or it being a demo bike, or just a lower retail price), I'd buy the one that would save me money.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-7366655419892790192012-09-26T01:41:21.040-04:002012-09-26T01:41:21.040-04:00A "big thumbs up".
Damn. Just paid 15 ...A "big thumbs up".<br /><br />Damn. Just paid 15 for a set because my 20+ year old xts blew up. <br /><br />Well at least we get two of them. And housing. And cables. And I can dump a whole cluster with a slam. <br /><br /><br /><br />Ground Round Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09103163385322185034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-16169306766946072922012-09-26T01:35:55.069-04:002012-09-26T01:35:55.069-04:00I do wait sometimes and no one is forthcoming so I...I do wait sometimes and no one is forthcoming so I have to say it. Then months/years go by I can say I said it. Whoopee. <br /><br />Really someone else should say what I was going to say before I say it so that I don't always have to say I said it. <br /><br />Anyway no one listens to us because. Ground Round Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09103163385322185034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-70727918859632238932012-09-26T00:58:59.689-04:002012-09-26T00:58:59.689-04:00You know what should be passe? Tig-welded steel bi...You know what should be passe? Tig-welded steel bikes, from any country. They are just not very inspiring. I liked the ride of my rSogn well enough, but aside from being overbuilt, I did not get much aesthetic pleasure from looking at that bike. I don't care if sloping top tubes are more practical, or if 1 &1/8th steerers are a "better" design. They don't look as good as straight top tubes and quill stems to my eye. Functionally, it's not too difficult to find used bicycles that do all the stuff these bikes do.<br /><br />Here's my old <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/PLhaznFOj8oxSeCTbwO9-NMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink" rel="nofollow">Nishiki Olympic 12 with 35s.</a><br /><br />For more mannered road riding, I'm right now enjoying a 1985ish Cilo/Vitus. Every time I look down at the anodized rose top tube and the bare aluminum lugs and the silver rims and beautiful Shimano 600 brakes, I have to smile! ($300 complete on ebay. A total creampuff!)<br /><br />I know, I know, to each his or her own, YMMV, etc. etc. My inner Andy Rooney got the best of me today. Enjoy Lovely Bicycles!<br />Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01285886035638697215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-67872661576347725282012-09-25T23:56:03.181-04:002012-09-25T23:56:03.181-04:00The Soma Double Cross is also lighter than the Cro...The Soma Double Cross is also lighter than the Cross Check, but in the same price range (cheaper than Gunnar). Would love to see someone compare them.<br /><br />Great Blog btw!<br /><br />-DAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-12790432134286012302012-09-25T23:20:27.734-04:002012-09-25T23:20:27.734-04:00This past winter/spring, I built up a Gunnar Cross...This past winter/spring, I built up a Gunnar Crosshairs as a bike for Century rides and 200K rando rides. I used to ride a Surly Cross-Check for the same type of urban/suburban riding but when my son grew out of his old bike and could ride the Surly, that gave me the excuse to create the Gunnar.<br /><br />For what it's worth (and I know that this is subjective and heavily dependent on components), the ride on the Crosshairs is worth the extra money compared to the Cross-Check. The geometry lets me ride upright or in the drops comfortably, I feel like I can "fly" on downhills and turns, and it makes me want to ride a lot. <br /><br />My LBS posted pictures of the build --<br /><br />http://www.718c.com/collaborative-build-gallery/718-265-gunnar-crosshairs/<br /><br />Eventually, my son will outgrow the Cross-Check and I'll reclaim it in order to convert it into a single speed for errands/short rides because I'll be willing to lock it on the street (but only after I strip the decals.) But the Gunnar is going to be my long-distance bike for as long as I'm riding long distances. It's simply a great bike/frame.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-19939977620595596232012-09-25T23:19:59.989-04:002012-09-25T23:19:59.989-04:00There are some interesting critical comments about...There are some interesting critical comments about this blog's author's verbiage/perceptual abilities which are valid but ultimately many of this class of steel bikes that fit properly will be very, very close in geo spec and ride similarly. <br /><br />It's only when a rider completely transforms his or herself do quantum leaps happen, upright bikes to road bikes for example. <br /><br />I suppose it's best to view this blog as an open diary versus the definitive word on bikedom as we are mostly allowed free reign to post what we want. <br /><br />The author knows more about human nature than bikes, believe it or not. It's the riding part that's being informed. Ground Round Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09103163385322185034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-26353536359904549252012-09-25T23:05:48.600-04:002012-09-25T23:05:48.600-04:00I think the SRAM brifters are pretty cool, as brif...I think the SRAM brifters are pretty cool, as brifters go. But, more importantly, I want to give a "big up" to Sun Race thumbies. My favorite upright-bars shifter on the current market, without a doubt.<br /><br />12buck$ a pair, work great, and no one gets jealous!Screechhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15397676711365438175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-69990429123908060402012-09-25T23:01:00.107-04:002012-09-25T23:01:00.107-04:00Thank you for your openness and honesty. Though m...Thank you for your openness and honesty. Though my experience and thinking is different than yours, I enjoy your oddity and visit this site often. While I stare endlessly and lovingly at my bike I think it's less about the bike and more about the experience. Yes, I'm odd, too. <br /><br />Was it Stephen Stills who said, 'if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with'? <br /><br />keep up the good work!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-72999056798693662762012-09-25T22:57:47.098-04:002012-09-25T22:57:47.098-04:00The degree of specificity/preciseness I go into de...The degree of specificity/preciseness I go into depends on the bike and on the extensiveness of the test ride(s). I am pretty comfortable with the terms I used to describe the Gunnar.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-15026048271201865562012-09-25T22:53:23.684-04:002012-09-25T22:53:23.684-04:00An experienced rider knows to what extent the hand...An experienced rider knows to what extent the handling quality of a bike is due to the frame and to what extent it is due to other components. As for your criticism that the terms are vague, so what? More precise terms are not needed, especially since handling perception is somewhat subjective anyway. And no, the factors you mention do not affect the handling of the bike independent of the frame; each component works in relation to the frame to produce riding characteristics that are particular to that combination.Thomas Puleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02480832735579963301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-3944451556486021082012-09-25T22:36:54.650-04:002012-09-25T22:36:54.650-04:00Sure. But it's good to see everything in conte...Sure. But it's good to see everything in context. You are visiting a blog about bicycles, and mostly niche bicycles at that. Of course I overthink things. Of course I test ride bikes and try to notice things about them - that's the point. There are similar blogs out there focusing on writing instruments, chairs, clothing, wallpaper, cat litter, you name it. Aspects of using these objects that you or I might never notice or care about are poignant to those authors. The web is full of weird/interesting stuff reflecting a variety of interests and obsessions. Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-71580240762737158852012-09-25T22:12:40.225-04:002012-09-25T22:12:40.225-04:00I recently upgraded to a Gunnar Sport, after havin...I recently upgraded to a Gunnar Sport, after having my bike stolen. I absolutely love how it rides and looks. I used my wheels and 105 components off another bike and came in around $1800. It rides smooth, with sure handling - and it is gorgeous.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-22700778663368425872012-09-25T22:10:58.764-04:002012-09-25T22:10:58.764-04:00Like so many bike reviews, the "handling"...Like so many bike reviews, the "handling" is described in terms like "stable", "responsive", "easy handling"...not only are these terms quite vague, but even if they were precisely defined they are largely affected by things like the rider's size, weight, power, position of handlebars in relation to saddle, length of stem that was used, type of handlebars etc. And these factors that affect handling are independent of the model of bike being tested. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-78346866998533306782012-09-25T21:48:25.683-04:002012-09-25T21:48:25.683-04:00Okay, I've done pace rides, races, touring, tr...Okay, I've done pace rides, races, touring, trail rides, commuting, all on different bikes which were basically hand-me-downs and, truthfully, remember very little about the bikes other than I enjoyed riding them. They really only mattered in a marginal sense. As long as they fit, were mechanically sound, and reasonably suited for the task at hand, whole new experiences were opened up and memories made and that, to me, is what is ultimately important. I don't think the bike dominates the experience -- within reason -- and one can never know with certainty in situation B that one particular bike is better than another of similar design. Climbing? Okay, some may have been more suited to climb but it was ME who pedaled them up the hill and decentst sometimes worked better on bikes which weren't the best for ascents. There are always so many variables. Of course it's lovely to have top of the line equipment and prolonged access to lots of bikes but over thinking does little to the bottom line. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-69057054410224228922012-09-25T21:40:45.794-04:002012-09-25T21:40:45.794-04:00I'm glad you're always here to point out t...I'm glad you're always here to point out the obvious. The frequently overlooked obvious. If you didn't get there first I'd feel obliged to.<br /><br />Waterford does extremely conventional bikes. They do it well. If you want anything else you either know precisely and completely how you want your custom spec'd or you go elsewhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-13108038702117712182012-09-25T21:14:13.296-04:002012-09-25T21:14:13.296-04:00Corollary to Opinion A: replace "good" ...Corollary to Opinion A: replace "good" with "experienced". Big dif, in my case. <br /><br />Opinion C: man- or woman-up and ride. <br />Pretty much every single bike is this blog is better than what we rode as kids. Ground Round Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09103163385322185034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-23613336846438892142012-09-25T20:58:33.152-04:002012-09-25T20:58:33.152-04:00This is a topic that really deserves a post of its...This is a topic that really deserves a post of its own. It's a matter of opinion how much of a test ride is "enough," and I daresay this opinion seems independent of how experienced or knowledgeable a rider is. But basically, opinion A is: A good rider should be able to tell within minutes everything they need to know about how a bike handles. Opinion B is: The true characteristics of a bike are only made known over the course of many (hundreds of) miles, varied terrain, altered components and different circumstances - factoring in also the rider's adjustment to the handling. In other words, according to Opinion B, you cannot possibly know how a bike will handle on a paceline ride, or on a century ride, or on a steep dirt descent after test riding it for <5 miles next to the bike shop. But according to Opinion A, yes you can. I fall somewhere in between these camps, but lean more toward B. <br /><br />Solutions for those in the Opinion B camp?<br /><br />1. Find a bike shop that carries demo models. These bike shops do exist. I am lucky enough to live near one (Ride Studio Cafe). Harris also has a few demo bikes, just not the Gunnar.<br /><br />2. Buy with the understanding that you might resell the bike after riding it for a while and figuring out what it's really like. Determine how much of a loss you are willing to take for this experience. (Think of it as having rented a bike for that amount of $$ over that period of time - is it worth it?)<br /><br />3. Buy used to make #2 easier on the wallet (in some cases you might even break even). Of course with used bikes there is far less choice. But it's an option.<br />Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-63568670037032012332012-09-25T20:14:49.948-04:002012-09-25T20:14:49.948-04:00That $1000 sounds about right - it was 900 or 950 ...That $1000 sounds about right - it was 900 or 950 3 years ago. I looked at Gunnar when I bought my Surly and the difference in cost was just too much for me at the time.<br /><br />The issue with building bikes up from a frame is that you either have very low cost components available to you or you are paying a high cost for having your LBS buy them. They can't get the same rate that Specialized and Trek get. But you do get the build that you want and it was worth it to me.<br /><br />When I go on my next grand tour I will get a Gunnar Grand Tour. It looks like a great touring bicycle. I've liked the Gunnars I have seen in person.<br /><br />New England Bicyclisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16609454624593868118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-64842755705850325292012-09-25T19:25:16.858-04:002012-09-25T19:25:16.858-04:00Oh btw since this is bog-standard geo-wise and you...Oh btw since this is bog-standard geo-wise and your 7 is bog-standard geo-wise for a road bike do you remember when I said that building in clearance for wider tires before you purchased a road bike is a good idea for when you eventually hit the dirt you don't have to buy yet another bike for special occasions? No?<br /><br />Anyway c'est normal. Ground Round Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09103163385322185034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-45282648591992212522012-09-25T19:08:54.076-04:002012-09-25T19:08:54.076-04:00Question....If a sponsor gave you a serious discou...Question....If a sponsor gave you a serious discount on a bike for the dirt would you take it over a bike you may actually prefer but would have to pay full price for? Or, are you in the category of 'professional' now to the point where you get serious discounts, or other advantages, on any bike you desire?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-10493745003148449742012-09-25T18:26:29.692-04:002012-09-25T18:26:29.692-04:00Indeed. You were fortunate with X and Y. Most of u...Indeed. You were fortunate with X and Y. Most of us have to rely on research combined with individual experience plus a bit of trust in the manufacturer and ability to adapt. You don't think you've ridden enough bikes to get a reliable and educated guess w/o doing a 100K dirt ride?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com