tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post4705853989980340967..comments2024-03-27T05:14:23.738-04:00Comments on Lovely Bicycle!: Crime vs. Accident?Velouriahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-78585841846071982962014-07-07T15:35:10.620-04:002014-07-07T15:35:10.620-04:00I think the important issue is the message that...I think the important issue is the message that's being sent out. When two cars gently tap one another and no harm is done, no one leaves the scene thinking it's okay to collide with other cars. When a car taps a bicycle and the cyclist barely maintains balance, unless there are consequences the driver leaves the scene thinking it's okay to collide with cyclists. I'd like to say it's just because cars are bullies, and there's probably some truth to that. But more than that there's a strong lack of social acceptance for driving into other cars, but that's not really true for bicycles unless a hospital gets involved. Incidentally, even after relatively minor fender benders without obvious physical harm many car drivers and passengers get medical attention just in case.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-74284402573873969202011-01-23T05:36:33.031-05:002011-01-23T05:36:33.031-05:00Two quarters, is one half... off way to express a ...Two quarters, is one half... off way to express a volume!<br /><br />Any physical contact with other materia other than rubber on road, must be interesting info to the insurance companies!?<br /><br />I got hit from the rear, A van glances off my overstuffed megazised brightly colored Timbuk2 bag. It was very snowy that day 2 years ago, but I had no choice but to make a trip to town. I gave the perp the finger as he drove away, but he decided to stay futher up the hill. I didn´t stop or talk to him at all in fear of beatining him up! He had an ornotologist badge on the back window, and I know the area is very interesting to them for that reason. So I bet he wasnt really waching the road...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-30764876622595569342010-09-27T05:32:10.177-04:002010-09-27T05:32:10.177-04:00Did You Know?
- 90% of walking accidents occur in ...Did You Know?<br />- 90% of walking accidents occur in urban areas<br />- 75% of walking accidents happen at, or near, a road junction<br />- 80% of walking accidents occur in daylight<br />- 80% of walking casualties are male<br />- About one quarter of the cyclists killed or injured are children<br />- Around two quarters of cyclists killed have major head injuriesRoad Traffic Accidentshttp://www.trafficaccidentsie.com/road-traffic-accident/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-24482939747005983182010-09-13T13:05:26.599-04:002010-09-13T13:05:26.599-04:00I'm very sorry to hear about your friend's...I'm very sorry to hear about your friend's accident, but I'm also sorry to read in your title that you avoid side streets. I've never heard the "side streets are more dangerous" argument until just this year, and that's after 23 years of commuting exclusively by bicycle-mostly on side streets. Even if the argument were true, I don't enjoy riding with the sound and smell of cars. Additionally, for me, fewer cars means fewer opportunities to experience road rage (speaking for myself).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-80130769456957790082010-09-09T15:12:32.741-04:002010-09-09T15:12:32.741-04:00Hitting a car with a car is not a crime in and of ...Hitting a car with a car is not a crime in and of itself.<br /><br />Why should a bicycle be different?<br /><br />(Equally important, it <i>isn't</i> under the law anywhere, as far as I know.)<br /><br />If the person was driving recklessly, that's a crime (or at least a ticketable offense), but one that's hard to prove without the cop being there.<br /><br />Mere inattention or simply misjudging space is not criminal, if no harm is caused.<br /><br />(Just like it's not a crime for two cyclists to collide, or for a cyclist to hit a car, without damaging it.)<br /><br />(Contra other commenters, <i>battery</i> requires intent to cause harm. Assault likewise typically requires intentional physical contact.<br /><br />Stumbling into someone isn't assault, nor is brushing their bike with your car.<br /><br />Not liking it doesn't make it a crime.)Sigivaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16152366541957466049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-46525703205569616322010-09-08T23:59:14.221-04:002010-09-08T23:59:14.221-04:00As a cyclist in California I have always taken the...As a cyclist in California I have always taken the "swimming with sharks" attitude towards riding on roads with the cars and trucks. It feels exactly like I'm placing myself in the food chain. Most surfers spend thier lives surfing with sharks swimming just feet from them and never get attacked...just like most cyclists will ride out thier days free from impact with a car...however...every so often someone will get hit...or bitten. When I'm on the road I try and place myself in the safest possible position I can, even if thats smack in the middle of the road, to lessen the chances of accidental interaction. And I have had people try and get as close as they can to me, and even motorcyclists trying to pat me on the back or push me or whatever it was they were doing. Its the risk I take by putting myself out there. Now if I DO get hit...and its with malice, you can best believe if I live, someones going to jail. If I dont live...well I'll cross that bridge when I get to it ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-60816614075431021922010-09-08T18:53:10.935-04:002010-09-08T18:53:10.935-04:00I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune, but g...I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune, but glad all is well. Two weeks ago I was coming home from a short shopping trip Saturday night about 9pm, front and rear lights blazing, safety triangle on basket, reflective vest, wheel & pedal reflectors all check. I was riding out of the door zone on the Main Street of my town when a car following behind me crosses the yellow line, guns the engine, passes me, then jams on the brakes, swerves in front of me and shoots down a small one-way street that leads to municipal parking.<br /><br />I had to slam my brakes hard to avoid hitting the car. If I had been going 1mph faster, or the road was 5 feet sooner, he would have hit me. I followed the car. The driver parked, then got out and started threatening me when I inquired what was the problem. Since he was very large and very young, as was his fellow passenger, I didn't doubt that he would get physically violent since he had already assaulted me with his car, so I memorized the license plate and left.<br /><br />I debated calling the police, but for the very reason your story is so frustrating--a total lack of concern by law enforcement--I decided it was best to chalk it up to a close call. Since I wear a distinctive safety vest and I'm one of the few regular cyclists in town, I worried about creating a "revenge" situation with this guy and/or his friends. It would not be hard to find me.<br /><br />I feel bad that he gets away with something like this, but unfortunately, reporting it in this case would likely only bring me more grief. However, if something like this happened again, I think I would be compelled to take the risk and make a report.<br /><br />Iron fishAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-23063109077867549592010-09-07T11:31:07.693-04:002010-09-07T11:31:07.693-04:00It was good luck that your friend wasn't knock...It was good luck that your friend wasn't knocked off by the bad driver. But you can't make a bad story out of this, because it has a good ending. That's why the officer was technically correct. You can't file damages against someone who COULD have caused damage, injury or death.<br /><br />In a situation like this, it's best to tell the driver what he did and what you'd like him to do in that kind of situation. So if he had sideswiped me, I would have said, "You hit me with your car, and it could have injured me badly. It also scared the life out of me. Please leave more room when you pass a cyclist, and if there isn't room, please wait until there is."<br /><br />In fact, I did this Saturday. The driver actually thanked me for the tip. Now THAT was a surprise.Tom Reingoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18210010557421996209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-54598879417331421722010-09-07T06:18:38.357-04:002010-09-07T06:18:38.357-04:00Wonderful that everyone is ok. So scary!
Issua...Wonderful that everyone is ok. So scary! <br /><br />Issuance of a ticket under most 3 foot passing statutes requires the officer to witness the offense, but tickets could have been issued for failure to yield or negligent driving.<br /><br />I put up a post on a similar situation with a similar result--no ticket issued. See http://randalputnam.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/limit-of-the-law/. The best advice in the post is to read Bicycling and the Law: Your Rights as a Cyclist by Bob Mionske. He is the preeminent bicycle lawyer in the country. Your questions will all be answered.<br /><br />Take care!<br />.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-73245071358639657812010-09-06T21:21:38.961-04:002010-09-06T21:21:38.961-04:00I'm a little late getting to this post. I agr...I'm a little late getting to this post. I agree with Alan about consulting with an attorney. It is clear to me that if your friend wanting to press the issue that there is the reasonable complaint of battery with a deadly weapon. A car can be used as a deadly weapon; your friend was hit; I'm sure there was a moment when your friend feared for his/her life.<br /><br />Sure, no one was hurt. About the most you could expect from the driver is an apology and maybe a traffic citation for reckless driving. The thing is that your friend must really press the issue if anything is going to happen.<br /><br />I know some one who was arrested for assault with a deadly weapon because she came to close to another women getting out of her car as my friend was driving by in her car. The person pressing charges was an off duty police officer who didn't like my friend. This women kept pressing the issue until a warrent was issued. This is a felony charge and had a high bond amount. After spending lots of money and time the whole thing was dismissed a year later. Oh, and my friend had to write an apology letter. Of course the whole thing was a big lie.<br /><br />Any way, the point is that a battery occurred and if your friend really wanted to make an issue out this, then people would have to listen.Prentisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04340786561850905893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-41396013591782648862010-09-06T09:27:25.060-04:002010-09-06T09:27:25.060-04:00As others have posted, the driver made an unsafe p...As others have posted, the driver made an unsafe pass, which is a ticketable offense. That said, many officers will not issue a ticket for a driving offense that does not cause damage or injury unless they witness it themselves. However, in this case, it seems like the driver was admitting to the unsafe passing. So if nobody is denying the event, why didn't he issue a ticket?<br /><br />That is the question I would ask the police.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01835466294966921439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-9302801328788553142010-09-06T03:38:02.049-04:002010-09-06T03:38:02.049-04:00@Herzog, by "hit" I include times when c...@Herzog, by "hit" I include times when cars have begun a right turn and brushed my leg with their front quarter-panel enough for me to yell, "hey" and slap their windshield. I am a firm proponent of biking where I belong in the road regardless of bike lane demarcation. I respect turn signals and rights of way, but I don't fear cars in city traffic because I AM city traffic. If someone can't see a six foot tall dude with a yellow bike helmet who is even with their right front tire, then I believe it is the driver who is doing something wrong. I also don't believe apprehensive cyclists should adopt such a strict adversarial relationship with motorists. Being responsible and confident make for better traffic systems.matt.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-77562133154434440092010-09-06T01:49:35.490-04:002010-09-06T01:49:35.490-04:00While it's true that cars may accidentally tou...While it's true that cars may accidentally touch each other's bumpers while entering/leaving a parallel parking spot, and if such collisions are minor *and* damage-free no one would write a report about it, the same is not true for moving vehicle vs moving cyclists.<br /><br />It's not even the fact that bicycles don't have "bumpers," it's that any slight contact of a cyclist by an automobile could result in a fall and then a person being run over by traffic or a grave injury from the fall itself. It seems that the situation of this particular incident in terms of "blame" is similar to a driver hitting but not injuring a pedestrian who had the right of way--basically not cool, not legal. Police are not terribly sympathetic to pedestrians either, but at least they don't get told by authorities to "walk safely" in the future (or something like that) as a prize for their misadventures.MDIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10810401918223629618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-42689126089104335292010-09-05T21:26:17.691-04:002010-09-05T21:26:17.691-04:00Firstly, I'm glad everyone is OK.
Alan beat m...Firstly, I'm glad everyone is OK.<br /><br />Alan beat me to the mass bike law links. There's not a specific 3' rule in MA, which most advocates think is actually better, because 3' is kind of arbitrary, and who carries a yardstick with them at all times?<br />Obviously passing close enough to hit someone is not passing safely.<br />I keep meaning to print out a copy of the MA bike laws to tuck into the pocket of my pannier, and keep forgetting, maybe now would be a good time.<br />@ Matthew the issue is that a little fender bender between two cars is either nothing, or a small bodywork issue, while a fender bender between a car and a bike is less an issue of property damage, than the potential for grievous bodily harm.<br /><br />I ride a fair bit on side streets, and I'm not sure that the streets are to blame. I think that if the lane is too small to share, as in your Prescott example, you just have to take the lane, and lead the parade. If someone gets all upset about it, I think, what would they do if someone were paralllel parking and they had to stop, would they honk their horn then? Side streets are for going slowly, if they're in such a hurry that they can't stop for a kid, a biker, a parallel parker, then they should take a bigger street.cyclerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10331461189944538729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-41122750711719512002010-09-05T21:16:17.375-04:002010-09-05T21:16:17.375-04:00What truly disturbs me is that the only recourse o...What truly disturbs me is that the only recourse one has in a situation like this is if property is damaged --Like if Velouria's friend's bike was damaged, well, that's something. Otherwise what? Nothing? That there is no automatic violation issued for hitting someone with a car is actually insane and says much about our culture and what we value.neighbourteasehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17571138655370581828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-45383699114131164202010-09-05T20:38:27.118-04:002010-09-05T20:38:27.118-04:00So, to put it into a car perspective, imagine if y...So, to put it into a car perspective, imagine if you're parallel parked, and you come out to find that there's a car that's really close to you. You try your best, but end up bumping the other car, accidentally. You pull forward, get out, look, and don't see any damage to either car. Do you call the police? If so, would the reporting officer have a similar reaction that that one had? <br /><br />I understand the frustration, and it upsets me greatly to be buzzed by a driver on the road, but I think that in instances where there isn't any damage or injuries, it falls under the "no harm, no foul" idea...especially since the three foot rule is, in most places, exactly that - a rule. It isn't a law, and therefore, probably isn't citable.Matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00464331017299038485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-51138449718717505752010-09-05T20:20:08.953-04:002010-09-05T20:20:08.953-04:00Anon 8:07 - I don't know. I have been clipped ...Anon 8:07 - I don't know. I have been clipped a couple of times, but what happened here was beyond that. It was pure luck that my friend was able to keep their balance. Where would you draw the line between a-hole behaviour and liability? I am not sure myself, but it doesn't sit well with me that hitting a cyclist is not in itself considered illegal.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-91791843036315882612010-09-05T20:08:47.885-04:002010-09-05T20:08:47.885-04:00Thanks to everyone for replying; your comments hav...Thanks to everyone for replying; your comments have given me a lot to think about. I think it is important that these incidents are reported even if the outcome is not satisfactory: At least it is on record and at least (maybe?) the driver will think twice before behaving similarly in future.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-80162882476785588812010-09-05T20:07:04.357-04:002010-09-05T20:07:04.357-04:00This is bananas, we get clipped by cars all day lo...This is bananas, we get clipped by cars all day long.<br />What are you doing calling the police and talking about statutes, claims, criminal responsibility........ just tell the guy to be aware of cyclists and not drive like an ass or the only charge given in this case is likely to be one of wasting police time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-87832706077718528762010-09-05T17:02:53.993-04:002010-09-05T17:02:53.993-04:00I once rear-ended someone with my car. Totally my...I once rear-ended someone with my car. Totally my fault as I let my foot slip off the brake while we were both stopped on a slight hill. She called the police even though the impact didn't even disrupt the dirt on either of our bumpers. The cops said there was nothing to report and told us if we wanted to file reports, we'd have to do it at the police station. <br /><br />Sorry this happened to you both!! I had a driver yell and scream at me earlier this summer for not stopping and my repeatedly pointing out that had I stopped (as I was doing when he cut the corner into my lane) I would be under his car. I had to keep going to avoid being hit. I kept saying "look where your car is! That's where I would have been if I'd continued to slow to a stop." He just got more angry, as did I. In general, no one wants to be in the wrong. We are a society of blamers. sigh.MandGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05961629785452003493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-80025431196474839752010-09-05T15:08:33.293-04:002010-09-05T15:08:33.293-04:00I am so glad your friend is ok! Sounds scary!
Re ...I am so glad your friend is ok! Sounds scary!<br /><br />Re side streets. I avoid them selectively for a few reasons. It is tempting to take a side street with or without a bike lane because it will generally be prettier. I don't, though, because here a side street, especially the kind that only affords a slight detour, is generally populated by the kind of asshole driver who wants to go faster than a main artery in NYC will allow. In my Brooklyn neighborhood, the side streets have stop signs and drivers rarely stop completely. Also because of absolutely endemic illegal parking and idling right up to the intersection, you really can't see a car until it is almost to the intersection and cars move so quickly that I end up having to make far more full stops than I do on a huge thoroughfare which is also wider and has clearer traffic behavior (lights, gridlock etc). All of these factors make me put up with my crap truck route. I also believe, ironically, that on these streets gridlock is a friend to bicyclists. Sob! Dear NYC I love you, but you suck.neighbourteasehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17571138655370581828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-51389099116174433342010-09-05T15:00:51.185-04:002010-09-05T15:00:51.185-04:00matt,
"I've been hit no less than 6 time...matt,<br /><br />"I've been hit no less than 6 times this year..."<br /><br />You're doing something wrong.Herzognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-31645689759490585622010-09-05T13:37:15.372-04:002010-09-05T13:37:15.372-04:00V. I am very glad your friend was not hurt, altho...V. I am very glad your friend was not hurt, although I'm sure she shocked and frightened. I suggest you go to Mass Bike Coalition: http://www.massbike.org/. They educate police departments as well as cyclists. I also suggest you and your friend wear helmets. Mine saved my noggin once when a woman swung way right trying to parallel park.Anne Welchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07773939487916426557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-54786435680502592372010-09-05T12:16:56.792-04:002010-09-05T12:16:56.792-04:00I doubt that the lack of damage or injury means th...I doubt that the lack of damage or injury means there was no violation. I don't know about Massachusetts, but under Chicago law a driver in that situation who did not deny hitting a bicyclist should be cited, at the least, for violating the 3-feet passing rule. <br /><br />Unfortunately, my experience dealing with the city law enforcement offices is that some workers are totally uninformed about the laws. I'm still angry at the 311 operator who told me that a driver who, on a sidestreet when I was minding my own business, passed within inches while honking, slammed on his brakes in front of me and yelled that I should get the fuck off the road did not commit assault, but only "ignorance," which there is no law against. <br /><br />Sorry this happened to you and your friend.Dottiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03984050970208363927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-59750053789664832272010-09-05T11:05:22.545-04:002010-09-05T11:05:22.545-04:00I'm glad no one was hurt; close encounters are...I'm glad no one was hurt; close encounters are always frightening.<br /><br />Here's a link to information on the 2009 updates to bike laws in MA:<br /><br />http://www.massbike.org/resourcesnew/bike-law/bike-law-update/<br /><br />These paragraphs make it clear that motorists must give bicyclists "safe distance", though they don't specifically say how much:<br /><br /><em>4. Don’t Cut Off Bicyclists After Passing : Motorists used to be required only to stay a safe distance to the left of a bicyclist (or any other vehicle) when passing; now, motorists are also prohibited from returning to the right until safety clear of the bicyclist.<br /><br />5. Don’t Squeeze Bicyclists in Narrow Lanes : If the lane is too narrow for a motorist to pass a bicycle (or any other vehicle) at a safe distance while staying in the lane, the motorist must use another lane to pass, or, if that is also unsafe, the motorist must wait until it is safe to pass.</em><br /><br />Then this one:<br /><br /><em>8. Motorists Liable for Hitting Bicyclists Riding to the Right : Bicycles, unlike other vehicles, are permitted to ride to the right of other traffic (e.g., on the shoulder), and motorists are not permitted to use this fact as a legal defense for causing a crash with a bicyclist.</em><br /><br />Notice the phrase "causing a crash". I wonder what MA law defines as a crash. It is contact, or must there be an injury?<br /><br />Personally, I'd contact a lawyer who specializes in bicycle law to see if there's any possible recourse.<br /><br />Alan@EcoVeloAlan@EcoVelohttp://www.ecovelo.infonoreply@blogger.com