tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post4121413323046783082..comments2024-03-18T08:41:35.438-04:00Comments on Lovely Bicycle!: Functionality, Comfort, AestheticsVelouriahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-79469271976931338462012-04-25T18:21:30.727-04:002012-04-25T18:21:30.727-04:00thanks for the article. I'm restoring an old R...thanks for the article. I'm restoring an old Raleigh rsw (with some schwalbe big apples and an 8 speed sturmey they're very, very good for what they were designed for..) and after putting a brooks b17 on it just didn't feel right. the article jolted something in place, it's a semi sport saddle on a town bike, it needs something sprung, functionally and aesthetically.derfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15596980838764306792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-31880818318826586652012-03-15T13:25:50.452-04:002012-03-15T13:25:50.452-04:00I believe the problem is this:
Functional/Beautif...I believe the problem is this:<br /><br />Functional/Beautiful/Cheap - Choose any two.Mr Willnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-35839942654904269482011-05-18T01:02:53.275-04:002011-05-18T01:02:53.275-04:00While I appreciate the author's elegant statem...While I appreciate the author's elegant statement regarding the three-pillars of her bicycle world view - function, comfort and aesthetics - is there not, in this awful world of ours, a tension between "functional" and "aesthetically pleasing." Functional means the bike can be used. Aesthetically pleasing means that it will be stolen, at which point it will no longer be functional, at least to its owner.<br /><br />As for the vacuum cleaner sub-thread, I know of no contemporary plastic, air sucking machine that can be loved, but consider the metal chassis classics: Electrolux and Kirby. I have three of the former and two of the latter, and they give me much pleasure, if I can put it that way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-10240288862919830812010-12-15T15:08:27.073-05:002010-12-15T15:08:27.073-05:00First time on site and getting taste of user comme...First time on site and getting taste of user comments. Happy to see a Boston blog. When I lived in Somerville many years ago I rode year around through Cambridge and Boston to my job near the Public Garden. At the time I needed a bicycle with function at the top of my list. It functioned well since it was sort of a beater and I could park it outside. Fast forward to Minneapolis summer of 2010 and I started to think about form. Although I graduated to a 'nice bike' many years ago I had a "beater bike' someone gave me and went to work chopping and flopping drop handlebars and made a modification that allowed micro hand positioning, multiple brake lever placement all with an upright riding position for quick urban travel. Check out blog, it's not why I ride a bike but how I roll.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-55669176467377454362010-12-08T15:47:17.802-05:002010-12-08T15:47:17.802-05:00Great post! Lewis Sullivan said "form follows...Great post! Lewis Sullivan said "form follows function." His protege Frank Lloyd Wright improved upon this when he stated "form and function are one." It is possible for a bicycle to resonate with your being. For me, it's the A. Homer Hilsen made by Rivendell Bicycle Works... amazing bike, amazing company... Again, thanks for a great post.Michaelhttp://oneinspiredmind.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-65014096861859387652010-11-04T14:28:07.517-04:002010-11-04T14:28:07.517-04:00Donald A. Norman's books _Emotional Design_ is...Donald A. Norman's books _Emotional Design_ is based around this very subject. In fact, he contends that quality aesthetics actually improve the functionality of an object (or a person's ability to use the object), even if the aesthetics do not have a direct functional impact. It is worth a read. His earlier book, _The Design of Everyday Things_ is a better book and relevant across a range of disciplines.<br /><br />Cheers,<br />Dan.<br />(an omafiets rider in Chicago)Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08133717973612191989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-40458077748903470082010-10-20T21:43:44.452-04:002010-10-20T21:43:44.452-04:00I have no issues with frames being made in china o...I have no issues with frames being made in china or taiwan. I ride a surly, taiwanese to the core, and it is very well made for being a $400 frameset. There are many taiwanese components i like, too. I think what gets me is how the bike "manufacturers" are misleading their customers.<br /><br />I used to work in a shop that sold, among other things, Bianchis. It drove me nuts to think that ppl were selecting the Bianchi Volpe over the Jamis Aurora for the stated reason that "the Bianchi is Italian". Now, I can think of other reasons to pick a Volpe over an Aurora, but Italian-ness isn't among them. To me, you take 2 taiwanese framesets, hang some shimano components on em, and the "country of origin" thing is a wash. A "Bianchi" decal doesn't make one more italian than the other. However, they're both nice bikes, for their intended purpose and at that pricepoint. The cliche thing to say about this sort of comparison: they're probably made at the same factory.<br /><br />I think I can dig far-eastern bikes when they're up-front about what they are. I can respect a Giant or a Flying Pigeon; it's tougher to generate enthusiasm for a new Masi or Schwinn. I don't dig the masquerade. And, of course, I don't enjoy the prospect of supporting a factory with unfair, irresponsible labor practices. But, it's just too durned hard, these days, to even know who you're buying your stuff from. <br /><br />-robAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-13284286736549577302010-10-20T20:21:41.761-04:002010-10-20T20:21:41.761-04:00Yeah, no way I'd hang $1000 worth of luggage o...Yeah, no way I'd hang $1000 worth of luggage on my bike.<br /><br />Bags just barely make sense at $100 a pop, I think $50 would make me much happier especially knowing they are mass-produced in the far east. Of course I don't see Brooks lowering prices any time soon and their saddles sell for around $100-$120 so they are trying to keep it in line, I guess.MDIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10810401918223629618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-28691427047528632052010-10-20T17:23:17.056-04:002010-10-20T17:23:17.056-04:00@Anonymous: We have a Dyson (my parents bought it ...@Anonymous: We have a Dyson (my parents bought it for us), but I usually prefer my straw broom, to be quite honest :) (so do our cats)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-88305439384506871882010-10-20T16:53:50.487-04:002010-10-20T16:53:50.487-04:00a man who loves his vacuum cleaner! be still my be...a man who loves his vacuum cleaner! be still my beating heart....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-88544584807397135302010-10-20T15:31:19.591-04:002010-10-20T15:31:19.591-04:00MDI -- Bummer that. From the comments on the Broo...MDI -- Bummer that. From the comments on the Brooks site it would appear you are not alone. I see they have an all-leather Glenbrook for a mere 400 Euros... sure hope it shows better workmanship!Deborahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-37032112169555505702010-10-20T13:05:34.971-04:002010-10-20T13:05:34.971-04:00A very simple, but heart-felt comment.
I love the...A very simple, but heart-felt comment.<br /><br />I love the look of your custom mixte: I want one like that, just 'cos it's purty. I'd have no idea about all the parts you chose though.TussahSilkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02434538085855942736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-76134485130596810652010-10-20T12:48:21.214-04:002010-10-20T12:48:21.214-04:00velouria, i wonder how you reconcile the stance yo...velouria, i wonder how you reconcile the stance you take in this post with the one you made long ago in the "vacuum cleaner" post, in which you stated:<br /><br />"A vacuum cleaner evokes associations with: order, work, domesticity, obligation, enclosed spaces, headache-inducing noise, and boredom. A bicycle evokes associations with: movement, freedom, independence, wind in your hair, the outdoors, and joy. It is only natural the the latter invites emotional connectedness and the former does not."<br /><br />i mentioned in that past (and still strongly maintain) that any appliance or tool is capable of evoking a positive emotional response. i used the example of my miele vacuum cleaner, which i think reaches a state of near perfection in terms of function and also design. it begins to look aesthetically pleasing to me because every aspect of its design follows a function, all of which simply *work*. when i see how the flow or air was designed to pass through the first, then the second, and finally the third filter, and when i see how the exit path for the filtered air is designed to flow upward and away from the floor (so as not to blow the dust bunnies on the floor all over the place before it sucks them up), and when i hear the clean, white-noise whine of a precision brushless electric motor, i can appreciate how the design elements all work in harmony to create a machine that simply works better than the rest. that is beauty to me. echoing portlandize's comment, the object becomes aesthetically pleasing to me as a result.<br /><br />it seems from your older post that objects generate emotional responses from you based on the type of activity associated with using them (domesticity, obligation, etc), not with how well they perform their function. by this token, it shouldn't matter how well or poorly an object performs, because the emotional response associated with the object is really associated with the activity surrounding the object.<br /><br />for me, the act of commuting by bike to work also is associated with negative things (obligation to work, deadlines, anxiety, boredom), yet i still enjoy a positive emotional response from the way my bike operates with its comfort and precision feel, as i'm on my way to the place that evokes those negative feelings. so for me, the emotional response of an object is more associated with how it interacts with me, rather than the type of activity associated with it.<br /><br />yet, in this post, you seem to be moving more in alignment with this notion.somervillainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13903377050982678550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-37215011195113720092010-10-20T12:32:19.478-04:002010-10-20T12:32:19.478-04:00Deborah--I am not sure when Brooks switched their ...Deborah--I am not sure when Brooks switched their bags to China but I have two of their bags on my Pashley and the dealer had to replace one (the larger one) for ripped stitching at the seatpost attachment point. The replacement felt even flimsier in some ways. I am at a loss because I really like the Brooks vinyl bags, they are padded and hold shape. They need to step up the quality control.MDIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10810401918223629618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-21553228191575950372010-10-20T11:20:16.493-04:002010-10-20T11:20:16.493-04:00A good bicycle will have great function and great ...A good bicycle will have great function and great aesthetics. It makes me laugh when i see people riding really badly made city bikes that are all about image and not about function.Nickhttp://games.ladbrokes.com/en/games/quiz/who-wants-to-be-a-millionaire-jackpot-quiznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-12512606881997153902010-10-20T11:03:07.669-04:002010-10-20T11:03:07.669-04:00It might be worth noting that some of Brooks produ...It might be worth noting that some of Brooks products are also manufactured in China. If you look at, say, their "D-Shaped Leather Tool Bag" (www.brooksengland.com) and scroll down to the "criticisms" section, you'll see an impassioned response from the staff about how they chose a manufacturer in China because the quality was BETTER than what they could find in Europe. These things are apparently so complicated...<br /><br />I truly appreciate the equal attention given to function, form, and aesthetics on this blog. I feel I'm becoming a significantly more informed and appreciative cyclist, which can only be a good thing!Deborahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-66014109231284264422010-10-20T10:10:11.362-04:002010-10-20T10:10:11.362-04:00this brings up the whole phenomenon of branding, a...this brings up the whole phenomenon of branding, and how branding has evolved over time. in the recent age of corporate conglomerates, the connection between a brand and a particular quality or character of product has been severed. it is no longer sufficient to choose a product simply by its name (dutch bikes being built by giant, jaguars and volvos being built by ford, etc...) and extra research needs to be done to know what you are getting.<br /><br />as for communist architecture, while i would agree that some of it was quite inspired and pleasing, most housing was strictly utilitarian (at least in czechoslovakia, where i lived, where they use the term "panelak" to describe the pre-formed concrete slab, uninspired housing blocks that were built between the 1950s-90s). however, the perspective of these buildings from a westerner can be very different from that of someone who grew up in the soviet era. the main distinction being that people who live in those buildings in former soviet bloc countries don't experience the social stigma attached to people who grow up in "projects" here in the US have (our austere, drab housing projects bear significant resemblance to soviet-bloc panelaks). for westerners, a housing "project" is inextricably associated with poverty and disenfranchisement; in former soviet-bloc countries, panelak living was (and largely still is) totally integrated, with all classes living in them. many of them now in the post-soviet era have become privatized, essentially condo-ized, and spruced up.<br /><br />i find it interesting that most east-europeans that i know who grew up in the soviet era and came to the US for a stint (grad school, post-doc, etc) gravitated toward the style of apartment complex that i would never consider living in. for them, a quaint, drafty victorian house with vintage charm would be the equivalent of ghetto living.somervillainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13903377050982678550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-64122885476390976682010-10-20T08:59:26.919-04:002010-10-20T08:59:26.919-04:00Herzog: I agree with you that the apartment block ...Herzog: I agree with you that the apartment block idea is not necessarily bad, and the areas around the apartment blocks also are sometimes quite nice, with parks and play equipment and whatnot - but it's a rare exception when the apartment building itself is pleasant to look at, at least in my experience.<br /><br />Velouria and Rob: regarding bikes made cheaply to look like Dutch bikes or whatever - this is part of why I remarked that to me, the quality of an object makes a noted effect on the aesthetic to me. Even though a step-thru Electra Amsterdam has a similar frame shape (at first glance) to the WorkCycles Zwan, to me, the Electra feels cheaper at first glance, and therefore changes the aesthetic appeal for me. There is something not really tangible between the two that just makes it seem obvious to me that the Electra uses cheap stuff (and they do, I've had one). I get the same feeling with pots and pans. A cheaper, thin, flimsy one, even if it looks similar to a nice one just feels different to me somehow, even without handling it.<br /><br />Regarding outsourcing frames and such, China and Taiwan do produce some very nice frames, and even if you don't like the idea of outsourcing, you can't deny that still some of the bikes built with these frames are very high quality bikes. Someone can always make the decision to buy from a local frame builder in order to get that quality without the outsourcing, but that bumps the price level up to an even higher price point than a WorkCycles, Gazelle, or Pashley or similar bike. It just depends what it's worth to a particular person, i guess.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-12820471235127742302010-10-20T02:58:08.625-04:002010-10-20T02:58:08.625-04:00Yes, seeing those bikes in early 2009 in DBC Somer...Yes, seeing those bikes in early 2009 in DBC Somerville was what made me question Gazelle's claim of being made in Holland. Out of curiosity, I investigated and even spoke to their corporate office on the phone. Eventually I learned that they sold their European production facilities in (I think) 2007.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-29749244447253212142010-10-20T02:53:44.448-04:002010-10-20T02:53:44.448-04:00Did you notice how Gazelle tries to spin its hybri...Did you notice how Gazelle tries to spin its hybrids with shock absorbers as "modern" reinterpretations of classic dutch bikes, when in fact they are based on generic Giant bikes that Gazelle sources for pennies from Asia?Herzognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-42571187015190595642010-10-20T02:50:00.063-04:002010-10-20T02:50:00.063-04:00Occasionally for short periods. I actually know qu...Occasionally for short periods. I actually know quite a its architecture (for a non-expert). Anyway, I get a laugh out of how people in the former Soviet Union love to hate on apartment blocks (and dream about living in American style suburbs), yet in reality there is far more demand than supply for such flats, and new blocks are being constructed.Herzognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-4426733497667611642010-10-20T02:42:43.857-04:002010-10-20T02:42:43.857-04:00Herzog - In the former USSR many modern apartment ...Herzog - In the former USSR many modern apartment complexes were built around the courtyard system, with playgrounds, yards, and sometimes even small leafy parks. "The yard" was a popular cultural concept, referring to the communal yard one grew up around. Have you lived in the former Soviet Union?Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-55739259875564698592010-10-20T02:31:05.682-04:002010-10-20T02:31:05.682-04:00Velouria - "European" bike companies see...Velouria - "European" bike companies seem to be relentlessly misrepresenting (lying about) their supply chains.<br /><br />I guess this happens for all types of consumer goods ("Made in Italy," anyone?), especially since most manufactures have evolved into marketing entities that often don't even design their own products anymore. It's sad how far brands have fallen.<br /><br />Remember how Clarks, Bostonian, Florsheim once made quality shoes? Well now they don't even *design* most of their shoes, instead sending out buyers with marketing degrees to order ready made shoes at trade shows.Herzognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-9628885426117948912010-10-20T02:20:04.424-04:002010-10-20T02:20:04.424-04:00Portlandize -- Careful! Not all Soviet buildings w...Portlandize -- Careful! Not all Soviet buildings were created equal. Despite the hate they get, many Soviet apartment blocks were very well designed, efficient, comfortable, surrounded with nice outdoor spaces.Herzognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-61284526786158837032010-10-20T02:11:11.364-04:002010-10-20T02:11:11.364-04:00rob - Hey, I am an art school dropout. Are you cal...rob - Hey, I am an art school dropout. Are you calling me a thief? : )<br /><br />The point about too much aesthetic charm on a commuter bike being a functional flaw is valid, if the commuter lives in a high crime area and the bike looks not just charming but *expensive*. I would deal with that by commuting on a cosmetically ravaged vintage 3-speed and slapping a decrepit-looking (but oh so comfy!) vintage Brooks B72 on it. I think that machine would actually be less likely to get stolen than a $60 WMart bike. <br /><br />As for the lower priced imitation-Dutch bikes and imitation mixtes... I have been torn about this for a while. I do not support their existence and I think that most people would be happier with a properly restored vintage 3-speed with modern alloy-rimmed wheels. The cost in the end would be about the same. However, what about the people who can neither afford the well made high end bikes, nor have any vintage bikes available in their home town, yet they want to cycle and they want their bike to be beautiful? For this I have the "Budget Options" page, and do occasionally comment/post about budget bikes. <br /><br />However... The bigger problem still is that there is no longer all that great of a distinction between the way those "imitation/budget" bikes are made and the way some of the formerly handbuilt-in-Europe bikes are made. Since I started this blog, almost *half* of the manufacturers listed in the "Manufacturer Profiles" page have revealed that at least some of their frame production is now outsourced to China. What am I supposed to do with that information? Drop them from the list and ignore their reputation as quality bikes? Move them to the "budget" page, even though they cost over $1K retail?.. Write an outraged post about it and upset everyone who bought one of these nice bikes precisely because they thought they *were* made in Europe by hand and not in China? No idea : (Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.com