tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post4006657583305736003..comments2024-03-27T05:14:23.738-04:00Comments on Lovely Bicycle!: A Nod and a Shake: On Cultural Subtleties and Non-Verbal GreetingsVelouriahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-34338446616647456322015-02-03T14:05:04.964-05:002015-02-03T14:05:04.964-05:00" Sure anod is as good as a wink to a blind h..." Sure anod is as good as a wink to a blind horse" as we say in West Cork.JohnHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15445339065031335646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-70886341307607539392015-02-01T13:48:37.257-05:002015-02-01T13:48:37.257-05:00Ah, hand signals. One evening I was headed for a ...Ah, hand signals. One evening I was headed for a party at a colleague's house. The driveway was on the right, as I rode toward it; meanwhile, a car approached in the oncoming lane and signaled to turn left into the driveway. I used the straight-right-arm-with -finger-pointed signal to indicate that I was turning right. As I did, the driver (who had clearly seem me) turned as well, so I had to make a sudden stop to avoid a low-speed collision. Since we were both headed to the same party, I then asked him what happened. He thought that my right-arm-pointing-right signal meant that I was giving *him* the go-ahead to turn. Since then I've always signaled with a flat hand, rather than a pointing finger. <br /><br />Also, pretty much nobody who drives a car knows the stop signal (left hand pointing downward). They often seem to think I'm telling them to stay far back at a red light -- which wouldn't be a problem, except that they then stop so far behind the signal that they're not on the magnetic detector strip, and I have to motion them to pull up in order to get a green light. Sigh.BGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15650718276049777977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-7075756223484755552015-01-31T13:51:10.939-05:002015-01-31T13:51:10.939-05:00I remember seeing this a lot when I visited Irelan...I remember seeing this a lot when I visited Ireland years ago, and it was a bit confusing at first. In the time since I have noticed a lot of regional variation in what I have always thought of as the "guy nod" (I know women do it too, but it seems more common in my experience between men, possibly because solitary women out cycling or walking are less likely to engage with random men). My favorite variation is the one I've encountered in the Pennsylvania Dutch regions of Eastern Pennsylvania, which involves cocking the head to one side, sometimes fairly sharply, so one looks like a curious dog. Matt DeBlasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17666227904684289223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-30763474024232030482015-01-31T13:45:18.467-05:002015-01-31T13:45:18.467-05:00I tend to make my right turn signal this way too, ...I tend to make my right turn signal this way too, just extending my right arm and pointing, and everybody seems to get it. I notice that a lot of the cyclists who make the right turn signal with the left hand pointing up around here tend to do it in kind of a brisk gesture with a clenched fist, like you see soldiers do on commando raids in the movies. Possibly it's more about the fantasy of having a special "secret language" rather than practicality. :-pMatt DeBlasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17666227904684289223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-29143951567661801502015-01-30T13:21:36.006-05:002015-01-30T13:21:36.006-05:00After asking John about this last night, he said t...After asking John about this last night, he said the head shake was familiar to him, but whatever I described at the time - the disapproving no, no, no thing - must not have translated. Still I've never seen HIM do it. And maybe I've just taken such off the beaten tracks in Ireland, that I rarely see other cyclists to have noticed the same greeting there<br /><br />It is still strange to me that the same people will nod their heads side to side to say no, but this nod is seen as a distinct and friendly greeting! The importance of learning the local ways! Fixie Pixiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12932022188247682078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-32143251718476955892015-01-28T23:45:18.676-05:002015-01-28T23:45:18.676-05:00Being an admirer of minimalism I'm a big fan o... Being an admirer of minimalism I'm a big fan of, and often use, the "roadie wave"; one, maybe two, fingers raised form the handlebar. Sometimes when using the two finger version I wonder if people interpret it as a peace sign (not a bad thing, but out of character for me). My favorite variation on this was when driving through a sparsely populated part of New Mexico a motorist passing in the opposite direction made eye contact, lifted one finger from the steering wheel and moved it in a small arc from right to left.<br /> The nod is also quite nice...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-55644014545184207152015-01-28T20:07:49.200-05:002015-01-28T20:07:49.200-05:00I once had a fellow cyclist chastise me for sticki...I once had a fellow cyclist chastise me for sticking my right arm out to indicate a right turn. He said it made no sense, was confusing, and is not a recognized signal. Of course I enjoyed explaining that he was the true moron. It seems nobody criticizes cyclists more than fellow cyclists. Chris Kostmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05056622357667732064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-1119852173163704172015-01-28T17:03:29.311-05:002015-01-28T17:03:29.311-05:00My son went to college in Boston and navigated the...My son went to college in Boston and navigated the city via bicycle. On his return, while riding with him in our home city, I saw that he acquired many non-verbal communication skills which were not so needed here. He firmly looks motorists in the eye and points, not to say 'hi' but to say I'm here and sharing the same space. That's intense. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-15974714350488313122015-01-28T11:18:39.066-05:002015-01-28T11:18:39.066-05:00My experiences as a driver, pedestrian, and road/u...My experiences as a driver, pedestrian, and road/urban cyclist on the US west coast encompasses all of these acknowledgement types except the side-to-side nod. That one would have thrown me off badly. At minimum I will do the drop chin nod and a two finger wave to other cyclists or courteous drivers. I do the same while behind the wheel. <br /><br />I think we ought to start a trend of roadie cyclists giving each other Harpo-esque "Gookies"as greetings. Corey Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15381826721030941179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-84719219797707929462015-01-28T07:06:41.175-05:002015-01-28T07:06:41.175-05:00Lots of debate in Oz about whether one should lift...Lots of debate in Oz about whether one should lift just the index finger or the index & middle finger when acknowledging oncoming motorists on rural roads. No consensus other than, the more remote the road, the more important it is to wave in this way.Accordion3https://www.blogger.com/profile/03213639751513402110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-53292995716605073412015-01-28T05:36:56.073-05:002015-01-28T05:36:56.073-05:00Sunglasses have a way of making people look mean a...Sunglasses have a way of making people look mean and scowly. For all you know, they could be winking at you behind that dark glass. Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-69756225602349622002015-01-28T05:34:42.649-05:002015-01-28T05:34:42.649-05:00When I lived in rural NH, my house was up a remote...When I lived in rural NH, my house was up a remote mountain road and motorists in passing would routinely nod to each other. But I've never seen the finger-wave thing. Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-74899686472468296542015-01-28T05:32:57.572-05:002015-01-28T05:32:57.572-05:00Interesting that they do the same in NZ. And even ...Interesting that they do the same in NZ. And even more so, that John was not familiar with the gesture. Must be an Ulster and not an all-Ireland thing. Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-52006596446589562252015-01-28T05:23:59.123-05:002015-01-28T05:23:59.123-05:00Systems of signs and signals, like spoken language...Systems of signs and signals, like spoken language, evolve to reflect everyday use and usefulness. The left-armed righthand turn is likely on its way out. A shame though, because I rather like it. Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-90614348843896076252015-01-28T03:14:10.786-05:002015-01-28T03:14:10.786-05:00When I rode a motorcycle regularly throughout the ...When I rode a motorcycle regularly throughout the 90's giving the "subtle wave" to a fellow biker was almost universal. Almost without exception if a wave was not offered or returned the rider was on a Harley Davidson. When bicycling I've had the same experience as spokeswoman with the Lycra Brigade. Transport cyclists and casual cyclists are much more friendly on average. This may well be one of the reasons the only time I've ever ridden in a group was when I was mountain biking. It seemed like out in the woods everyone I met was friendly, helpful and accepting no matter what level of skill I was at. nowherehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12125582590094636085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-82070816711839708992015-01-27T19:16:09.612-05:002015-01-27T19:16:09.612-05:00Totally agree, EcoCatLady, (and with Anon 4:37 abo...Totally agree, EcoCatLady, (and with Anon 4:37 above). I had to unlearn the left hand/right turn signal ingrained from driver's ed way back, and from years of motorcycling, where it's the only possible way to signal a right turn (you CAN'T take your right hand off the throttle). Like you say, when we point to the right, everybody knows what we mean!<br /><br />CharlieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-42105835092172397122015-01-27T15:31:40.628-05:002015-01-27T15:31:40.628-05:00In this area I find that cyclists who ride for tra...In this area I find that cyclists who ride for transport (very few of us), will always acknowledge one another when in close proximity, with a 'nod'; when passing recreational riders and walkers on shared paths greetings may be a 'nod' and/or "hi" - exceptions are those of the 'Lycra Brigade' who never acknowledge other cyclists other than to shout instructions as they approach - quite rude.spokeswomanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05003029599627697118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-28147228889981643592015-01-27T15:21:19.898-05:002015-01-27T15:21:19.898-05:00Motorists failing to give way at intersections is ...Motorists failing to give way at intersections is also an issue here - I also make eye contact and in addition give a 'stop' signal with my hand, where I believe the driver may still proceed I 'push them back' with my hand quite energetically while maintaining eye contact. Where obnoxious drivers are concerned, the gestures I use are those one may not be particularly proud of upon reflection.spokeswomanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05003029599627697118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-90717859986745238042015-01-27T13:55:30.809-05:002015-01-27T13:55:30.809-05:00Yes, yes, yes! I just left an almost identical com...Yes, yes, yes! I just left an almost identical comment below - should have read through these first. Seriously, what on earth is the point of a signal that almost no one can properly interpret?EcoCatLadyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15704811319510740473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-51906952038375302562015-01-27T13:53:12.022-05:002015-01-27T13:53:12.022-05:00I am SOOO with you on this one! I always wear my n...I am SOOO with you on this one! I always wear my neon yellow "armor" and am sure to make eye contact before proceeding into an intersection. I usually wave thanks to the driver and mouth "thank you" as well. Part of me thinks that extra acknowledgement shouldn't really be required for not mowing me down when I have the right of way, but I figure that it's always best to bow to the guy in the 2-ton machine regardless of what the law says. And maybe if I take the "killing them with kindness" approach they'll be more likely to look out for bikes in the future.EcoCatLadyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15704811319510740473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-13053242481754076902015-01-27T13:37:37.189-05:002015-01-27T13:37:37.189-05:00Local lane signalling round the steep,deep banked ...Local lane signalling round the steep,deep banked single track lanes which pass for entertainment round here gets to be a single finger imperceptibly raised as an effusive gesture of thanks for reversing a hundred yards round corners to a passing place. The sideways nod is equally parsimonious in its movement. Cycling acknowledgement is normally non vocal and restrained - roads of sufficient gradient that either breathing or grimly clinging to the brakes is the over-reaching activity. If one meets a fellow cyclist on the flat, broad smiles, as shared by survivors of a calamitous event, are exchanged, just before the next plummet or lung bursting ascent hoves into view.Mark Hubbardhttp://www.smartbrowndog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-37373820862926541722015-01-27T13:26:45.403-05:002015-01-27T13:26:45.403-05:00This may be slightly off topic, but the whole righ...This may be slightly off topic, but the whole right turn signal thing strikes me as a bit crazy - I mean just the fact that people misinterpret it as a wave tells me that they don't know what it means. So how useful is a signal that people can't interpret? I know, I know, I know... people "should" know what the signals mean, but honestly, I'm more concerned with drivers being able to predict what I'm gonna do than being "correct" on the road. So I always just point with my right arm - like a left turn signal only with my right arm. That's actually considered acceptable by Colorado law, but I know that's not the case everywhere. I realize it takes my hand off my right breaks, and perhaps is slightly less visible than signaling with the left arm, but it makes vastly more sense to me than using a signal that almost nobody can interpret. Just wondered what y'all think about it...EcoCatLadyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15704811319510740473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-3327076181222073632015-01-27T09:46:27.885-05:002015-01-27T09:46:27.885-05:00When we first moved to New Zealand years ago, I wa...When we first moved to New Zealand years ago, I was also perplexed by this. Why were people waving NO to me? Then one day we saw a friend pedaling toward us and he did the same thing, so we asked him what was wrong. He told us it was the way THEY did a friendly greeting. Maybe it goes with driving on the left! I don't think I ever got used to it, even after knowing that it wasn't a sign of disapproval. Fixie Pixiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12932022188247682078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-84415921495322466972015-01-27T09:40:14.811-05:002015-01-27T09:40:14.811-05:00I definitely remember "the nod" from my ...I definitely remember "the nod" from my youth in Northern Ireland although I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happens in lots of other rural locations. Whatever the mode of transport, when encountering someone along the road, the chances are you'd know the person, or recognise the face and if not, well just nod anyway.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12826498172261997737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-73083657945483949212015-01-27T09:34:56.508-05:002015-01-27T09:34:56.508-05:00I like to communicate with drivers in cars. I wan...I like to communicate with drivers in cars. I want to make sure they see me. My biggest problem with motorists is when I have the "walk" sign and begin to cross the intersection. Drivers often mistake their ability to make a right turn on a red light for a God given right to make this turn without first stopping or yielding to pedestrians. This is a fairly common practice in my area of Florida. I therefore seek to make eye contact with a car in the right hand turn lane. When it is clear they see me and are stopping, I make sure to give them a nod AND a wave. My hope is that by clearly acknowledging their attentiveness they will be even more alert to cyclists in the future. Oh and when a driver blasts through his turn I yell at them....it makes me feel better.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05320177791490240405noreply@blogger.com