tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post372132309583765044..comments2024-03-18T08:41:35.438-04:00Comments on Lovely Bicycle!: Bicycle Safety: My PerspectiveVelouriahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comBlogger155125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-8197289668398111432011-07-19T14:25:14.225-04:002011-07-19T14:25:14.225-04:00Roff - Thank you for clarifying that : )
I am not...Roff - Thank you for clarifying that : )<br /><br />I am not looking for credibility. I never had it. I am not an authority on anything bicycle related. This is just a blog, full of personal opinions, biases, and BS as any other blog.<br /><br />At this time I will close the discussion, as my moderation resources have become officially depleted. Thank you everyone for an informative and mostly respectful discussion.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-66074711825558060732011-07-19T14:06:20.793-04:002011-07-19T14:06:20.793-04:00Velouria said...
"The direction of the commen...Velouria said...<br />"The direction of the comments makes it clear that we cannot in fact prioritise in this manner - the gear debate has an emotional stronghold on everyone."<br /><br />Until drivers allow space 24/7/365 for cyclist ,as they do in countries where cycling is much more common, the priorities will always be self preservation for all cyclist.<br /><br />As it stand now the relationship between cyclist and drivers is one of hunter & prey..............Walt Dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-22483105903565105402011-07-19T13:46:20.982-04:002011-07-19T13:46:20.982-04:00What's interesting is all the fervent for/agai...What's interesting is all the fervent for/against helmet discussions with almost no discussion about the benefits and methods of learning to bicycle safety. This must be due to one of these two things: Either 1)most people here already strongly agree with safe bicycling practices and simply feel that's a given with no need for discussion; or 2) most consider safety equipment much more important than safe bicycle operation.<br /><br />I hope it is the former.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01835466294966921439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-18205465457138322622011-07-19T13:36:29.865-04:002011-07-19T13:36:29.865-04:00Go ahead and remove my comment by all means if you...Go ahead and remove my comment by all means if you want to. I am not going to bother cutting and pasting, nor am I writing this post for publication but to make clear that my choice of words in that post was considered - I really do believe that the blinkered, adolescent I-doan-wanna-I-doan-hafta-an-I won't attitude that is promulgated with regards to helmet use is dangerous and reckless. I believe in personal choice, but I also think that to discourage or denigrate helmet use as you are doing in your bully pulpit (with your ingenuous comparisons with steel capped boots, neck braces, and what-not) is grossly irresponsible. I am totally in agreement with Lynne; you and your column have lost a lot of credibility in my view. <br /><br />Cycling is safe, and pleasurable and beautiful - lovely, in your own words - but a bike is not a toy, nor should it ever be regarded as one.<br /><br />Ride safe<br /><br />RoffAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-52715992421801918492011-07-19T13:26:56.454-04:002011-07-19T13:26:56.454-04:00Those who wore helmets and the helmets did not sav...<i>Those who wore helmets and the helmets did not save them cannot post about it here. Think about it. </i><br /><br />Right, but... neither can those who died <i>and</i> weren't wearing a helmet. Obviously the comments exclude those who died, period, regardless of helmet usage. <br /><br />The only helmet benefit data we have to go on in terms of tallying comments from survivors in this thread is (1) whether they survived a <i>head</i> injury from a bicycle accident, and (2) whether they were wearing helmets.<br /><br />Where are the responses from readers who have survived head injuries and <i>were not</i> wearing helmets? I haven't seen any yet.somervillainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13903377050982678550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-20224059901049095712011-07-19T13:26:19.084-04:002011-07-19T13:26:19.084-04:00I'm digging the "small" benefit of b...I'm digging the "small" benefit of being alive. <br /><br />V, you influence a lot of people. I truly did almost stop wearing a helmet about four months ago. I had never questioned the benefit of a helmet before reading the articles claiming no benefit that are shared in the bike blogging world. I really hope that you hear that. The terror of that car appearing will live with me forever and one of the things that flashed through my mind was the realization that I had nearly stopped wearing a helmet.<br /><br />I'm old enough to remember the same debates with regards to seat belts and driving while intoxicated. Why do I support seat belt and helmet laws? Because it's not just about you. When you make that personal choice and wind up injured because of it, your family and society are also affected. <br /><br />But laws, just like the law against passing on a double yellow, won't necessarily protect anyone. I just cannot comprehend us, the cycling community, encouraging people to not use helmets. The benefit may be minor, but it is NOT zero. I am not a zero.Lynnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15552684053156651847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-47477765867830898372011-07-19T13:11:05.299-04:002011-07-19T13:11:05.299-04:00somervillain - Those who wore helmets and the helm...somervillain - Those who wore helmets and the helmets did not save them cannot post about it here. Think about it. <br /><br />But again... Nowhere in my post or in the comments did I write that people should not wear a helmet if they believe the helmet is beneficial. In my post I wrote that I believe safe bicycling behaviour to be a priority over safety gear - as in, the priority of the order of importance. <br /><br />The direction of the comments makes it clear that we cannot in fact prioritise in this manner - the gear debate has an emotional stronghold on everyone.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-18061621042525877412011-07-19T13:05:34.134-04:002011-07-19T13:05:34.134-04:00But seriously, Velouria, how would the meta-analys...But seriously, Velouria, how would the meta-analysis reconcile with Lynne's and others' experiences? Or do they represent the "small" benefit that the meta-analysis indicates?somervillainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13903377050982678550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-42231827471727499182011-07-19T13:01:50.307-04:002011-07-19T13:01:50.307-04:00somervillain - Re statistics by tallying up the co...somervillain - Re statistics by tallying up the comments here vs a meta-analysis?... come on. <br /><br />Lynne - I am not going to argue with you; this has already gotten to emotional to be productive. I will write a dedicated post about helmets where I will outline my views on all of the points you and others raise.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-1996923905054570902011-07-19T12:47:59.041-04:002011-07-19T12:47:59.041-04:00Okay, several times now I've pointed out that ...Okay, several times now I've pointed out that statistics are difficult to interpret or derive meaning from.<br /><br />It just occurred to me that of the 149 comments thus far, three were from people who have personally experienced a crash involving a blow to the head with a probable benefit of having worn a helmet (with Lynne's being a particularly poignant example). That's 1.5% right there, without vetting the comments. Yet the statistics cited by Velouria claim a 0% benefit. Statistics, huh? Anyone care to reconcile the discrepancy?somervillainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13903377050982678550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-13776523859943644112011-07-19T12:43:51.627-04:002011-07-19T12:43:51.627-04:00Portlandize and V: both sides are not valid, perio...Portlandize and V: both sides are not valid, period. I simply would not have fared better without a helmet. My face and glasses were very scratched and my helmet cracked in two. The helmet did not save my arm and foot, but I did not lose consciousness or sustain any head injury. <br /><br />The law did not protect me; the driver broke the law. The low traffic on the road did not protect me. The numerous "watch out for bicycles" signs did not protect me. Incredibly, the driver was aware of the bicycles on the road that day -- not me, though. <br /><br />There is a big difference between making a personal choice not to wear a helmet and encouraging others to make that choice. I studied the "debate" before I was hit. I almost bought the argument that helmets did not make one safer. I can't tell you how happy I am that I did not make that choice. <br /><br />So let me throw that out to all the bike bloggers who encourage people to disregard helmets as necessary safety equipment. I almost fell for it. I would definitely have been much more seriously hurt, felt more pain, and possibly been killed. I am a big transportation and sporting cycling advocate. Things like being hit by cars really do happen to real people. How would you feel, bike bloggers who don't think helmets make you safer, if these posts I am writing today were instead being written by my son after his mom was killed because I HAD fallen for it and HAD NOT been wearing a helmet?<br /><br />I guarantee you that you will want a helmet if you wind up in that moment where a car is suddenly 10 feet in front of you and you realize that it IS going to hit you. <br /><br />You have lost a lot of credibility in my eyes. I hope that you will consider that you may influence someone to choose not to wear a helmet and that person may be seriously injured or killed because of it. <br /><br />I know that you discourage this debate on your blog because it is so heated. I am not accusing you of being anti-helmet. But we all know how hostile drivers are toward us. We need to conquer that problem first. <br /><br />Please take seriously my statement that I really did almost stop wearing a helmet based on this debate all over the bike blogging world. There is someone else out there who has been influenced to disregard helmet use. I hope that person comes to his or her senses before winding up where I did.Lynnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15552684053156651847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-57849627676521872452011-07-19T12:17:25.393-04:002011-07-19T12:17:25.393-04:00Actually, somervillain, Mrs. Dershowitz was in fac...<i>Actually, somervillain, Mrs. Dershowitz was in fact wearing a helmet.</i><br /><br />Fair enough, but was there evidence that it was being used properly? Straps latched? Tightened properly? Right size helmet? Put on in the right direction (yes, I have seen people wearing helmets backwards). Any device can only work effectively if it is used correctly. Unfortunately, these types of details are rarely recorded in accidents. The data collection skills of the officials who arrive on accident scenes are all too often sorely lacking.<br /><br />When police arrived on the scene of our accident, the *only* piece of data that was entered on the police report was that we had refused an ambulance. All the police were thinking was CYA. No mention of helmet use. So, we were a missing statistic. <br /><br />As for whether a helmet prevents injury, reduces severity of injury, or reduces discomfort of injury-- any sane person can tell you that it's impossible to know with certainty without doing the controlled experiment. Understandably, human subjects can not be used in the relevant experiment. However, common sense suggests that it would.<br /><br /><i>To anyone who has ever actually been there - felt that horrific high-speed smack of body on pavement, and seen the crack in their helmet, there really is no argument.</i><br /><br />Been there, seen that. But again, personal choice, based on personal experience. Do what you want, be pro-helmet or anti-helmet, but please refrain from comments such as "helmets do nothing", as well as comments such as "people are stupid for not wearing them". What's *most* important is that people have the personal freedom to make their own judgments about their personal safety. <br /><br /><i>One thing that has not gotten many comments here and that is simply this. No matter how skilled you are or how safely you are riding, it is still possible to get in an accident and most likely with a car or other moving vehicle. Fact is there are too many drivers out there who have no business behind the wheel of a car! </i><br /><br />I think I brought this up earlier :-).<br /><br /><i>Wearing a helmet correctly is more important than just having one on your head. </i><br /><br />Exactly!somervillainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13903377050982678550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-34467221515540281342011-07-19T12:06:11.180-04:002011-07-19T12:06:11.180-04:00oh yes....and i'm SO glad those who have had s...oh yes....and i'm SO glad those who have had spills while wearing helmets are taking the time to share. godspeed, Lynn.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-56294859197815007952011-07-19T12:03:45.283-04:002011-07-19T12:03:45.283-04:00Anon 11:53 - I have a lot to say (and ask) about f...Anon 11:53 - I have a lot to say (and ask) about fit and road helmets, since this is something I struggled with when choosing one and I know others do as well. Seems to be more tricky than city helmets, too. Maybe yet another helmet post in the works.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-5073098775241619942011-07-19T11:58:10.401-04:002011-07-19T11:58:10.401-04:00Roff: I don't see the rage and angst you'r...Roff: I don't see the rage and angst you're talking about in this discussion. I think all us "anti-helmet brigade" (which is also labeling people as something which they are not) are trying to say, is that it could be a perfectly reasonable decision for some people to not wear a helmet. That's it.<br /><br />Both sides of this helmet argument are valid, this is not a debate in which we can settle on a universally applicable law. I know it's really tempting to try, but it's not going to happen.<br /><br />Do what you feel is necessary for yourself, and let everyone else do the same.portlandize.comhttp://portlandize.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-41944621547571164852011-07-19T11:53:59.623-04:002011-07-19T11:53:59.623-04:00This conversation has become both entertaining and...This conversation has become both entertaining and irritating. It seems V has had an agenda since the very beginning against the current climate of media and marketing which she feels can alienate or misled many from the joys of riding. Fine. When buying a bike this past year the LBS stressed safe riding habits, proper bike maintenance, and fit as keys to enjoyable riding. This blog has always been a source of shared knowledge and experience. We each have our own epiphanies which dictate the ways in which we become more connected to this total experience of cycling and we each have our pet peeves and annoyances. Helmet discussion sure brings out both. I'd only like to add that, like all things we attach to our bodies or bikes, fit is important. Wearing a helmet correctly is more important than just having one on your head. Be safe!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-18822063748837866742011-07-19T11:27:27.258-04:002011-07-19T11:27:27.258-04:00Actually, somervillain, Mrs. Dershowitz was in fac...Actually, somervillain, Mrs. Dershowitz was in fact wearing a helmet.<br /><br />http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/07/03/2011-07-03_driver_who_hit_killed_marilyn_dershowitz_sisterinlaw_of_alan_dershowitz_may_not_.htmlJesse Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10802754799848483493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-49346841259724679252011-07-19T11:24:15.372-04:002011-07-19T11:24:15.372-04:00Lynne - I am so sorry to hear about this : (((
S...Lynne - I am so sorry to hear about this : ((( <br /><br />Same to all others who report being hit by a car, our debate notwithstanding.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-53301479064918441612011-07-19T11:23:49.082-04:002011-07-19T11:23:49.082-04:00^ "Last line of defense" as worded by Je...^ "Last line of defense" as worded by Jesse is a good way to think of it. I'll take as many lines as I can get, but a reasonable person could certainly elect to go with fewer.<br /><br />However, if someone came up to me with a brick and a helmet and said, "I am going to hit you in the head with this brick, albeit at a relatively slow speed. Would you care to don this helmet first?" assuming I couldn't out run the loon, I'd say, "Yes, please." Even if there was no conclusive data as to whether the helmet would "save" me, I'm pretty sure it would hurt less.<br /><br />I do think it's a bit disingenuous to pretend as though whether or not someone's life will be saved is the only potential benefit of protective gear. There's something to be said for simply reducing unpleasantness, at least to my mind. Would my daughter have survived her crash sans helmet? Perhaps, but her good looks would certainly have suffered if the first thing to hit the pavement had been her nose instead of the front of her helmet. And of course, there's the whole pain thing, the worst of which I am grateful her helmet allowed her to avoid.kiwigemnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-86692395988066713282011-07-19T11:22:02.642-04:002011-07-19T11:22:02.642-04:00You have not seen a comment from me in a while bec...You have not seen a comment from me in a while because I was hit head-on by a car that was probably travelling in excess of 50mph in June. The driver passed in a clearly marked no passing zone. My bicycle handling skills AND MY HELMET saved me from certain death. It is ludicrous to argue that my helmet did not protect me. The helmet was cracked in two. Seriously, it did not make me safer?<br /><br />You cannot predict or avoid a situation like this. Wear a helmet. I am typing this (with my one functioning hand) because I was wearing a helmet.Lynnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15552684053156651847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-90892533695775153912011-07-19T11:14:07.516-04:002011-07-19T11:14:07.516-04:00A couple points
The bullet proof vest is an analo...A couple points<br /><br />The bullet proof vest is an analogy; If you don't understand that, it's pointless to reply. Fact is even with airbags and seatbelts many more head injuries are recorded in automobiles. How do you think automoblie drivers would react to having to wear a helmet!<br /><br />Here in Dallas, people riding bicycles are required to waer a helmet, but motorcycle riders are not!! Sounds silly to me!<br /><br />One thing that has not gotten many comments here and that is simply this. No matter how skilled you are or how safely you are riding, it is still possible to get in an accident and most likely with a car or other moving vehicle. Fact is there are too many drivers out there who have no business behind the wheel of a car! My wife came from a country were women typically don't drive, when she came here I taught her how to drive, but quite honestly I did not feel good about letting her out on the road, even though she passed her driving test and got her license! Problem is we live in a car based society and I had little choice, but let her drive if she was going to function as a normal person in the community! I will chalk it up to my driving instruction that she's only had one accident in 12 years. (Slippery, rainy road and a sharp curve) She's a pretty good driver now and I don't worry about her, but the fact is that at any time there are thousands of less skilled drivers on the road. I have really noticed over the last year a spike in elderly drivers exibiting a variety of behaviors that indicate to me that they have no business on the road, but who's going to step in and stop them?? These people are not only dangerous to cyclist, but other motorists as well!<br /><br />So really we are left with cyclist forced to wear helmets as a direct response to our car centric society. I have 4 cars and I love cars, but I also own 15 bikes and 8 skateboards and I love them just as much!!<br /><br />When Dallas passed their mandatory helmet law, ridership dropped noticably and @ least 3 bike shops in my area went out of business. That to me is counter productive!<br /><br />AS I said earlier I do wear a helmet most of the time and part of that is because I am a dad and a husband, BUT it should be my option! Unfortunately I think part of the juggernaut driving helmet laws are Car-centric insurance companies, who are more concerned about large payouts by their car driving customers to cyclist that they may hit then any real concern over public saftey.<br /><br />We will continue to have this problem until city/public planners start designing transportation around Bicycle/pedestrian traffic and other alternatives rather then cars!<br /><br />MASMOJOAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-90570324378901016482011-07-19T11:06:59.018-04:002011-07-19T11:06:59.018-04:00Adam said...
"In my city you are at least 180...<i>Adam said...<br />"In my city you are at least 180 times as likely to die from being shot than dying in a bicycle accident, and private citizens are forbidden to wear bullet proof vests by law."</i><br /><br />Exactly. I have lived in areas where getting shot, stabbed, raped, or beaten is a very real concern for pedestrians. To undermine this by suggesting that the risk of head injury from cycling is higher is to show how out of touch one is with reality.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-5438457796625300572011-07-19T10:52:59.866-04:002011-07-19T10:52:59.866-04:00Sue:
Marilyn Dershowitz, 68, was hit on W. 29th S...Sue:<br /><br /><i>Marilyn Dershowitz, 68, was hit on W. 29th St. near Ninth Ave. just after 12 p.m., sending her crashing to the pavement, police said.</i><br /><br />Interesting. If it was the fall to the ground that caused the bleeding and not the direct impact with the vehicle, I wonder if a helmet could have mitigated the forces that led to the bleeding? Not to add fuel to the debate, but just to yet again illustrate that even if you are exercising all the appropriate safety considerations, it's possible to have a collision with a motor vehicle resulting in a fall to the ground-- we're not talking high-speed impact here--exactly the type of fall that a helmet is designed to protect against.somervillainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13903377050982678550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-64374146792198393172011-07-19T10:39:21.258-04:002011-07-19T10:39:21.258-04:00In the end, this is what I would recommend to anyo...In the end, this is what I would recommend to anyone who asked me:<br /><br />The health benefits of cycling vastly outweigh the risks (with or without a helmet). Even with the minor risk that cycling involves, riding regularly increases your life expectancy significantly.<br /><br />So, if wearing a helmet gives you the confidence to ride regularly, then by all means do so. Conversely, if having to wear a helmet would discourage you from riding regularly, they don't wear one. <br /><br />If you do choose to wear a helmet, do not overestimate its protective effect, and consider it a last line of defense. All of the safety advice Velouria lists in this post should come first.Jesse Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10802754799848483493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-42096502676676587292011-07-19T10:39:01.010-04:002011-07-19T10:39:01.010-04:00http://www.nybuff.org/2011/07/women-struck-and-kil...http://www.nybuff.org/2011/07/women-struck-and-killed-by-usps-truck.html#comments<br /><br />I did not agree with the comment posted - once again he was blaming the cyclist.Suehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12235831374184428641noreply@blogger.com