tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post346969565979457230..comments2024-03-27T05:14:23.738-04:00Comments on Lovely Bicycle!: Leveling the Playing FieldVelouriahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-53084140007215862692011-07-14T11:59:20.569-04:002011-07-14T11:59:20.569-04:00I failed geometry so this stuff confuses me, but I...I failed geometry so this stuff confuses me, but I lowered the stem all the way on my Raleigh Sports commuter yesterday and instantly increased my average speed 2 mph and my cruising speed 3 mph. I'm amazed just a couple inches of handlebar height improved my speed so much. <br />On my other Raleigh Sports, which is set up as a stripped down pathracer, I go even faster. The tires are the same, but it is much lighter, the stem is longer and the bars are flipped. And the fixed gear probably makes a difference too.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12314300611004089337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-78146792222171593802011-07-13T22:49:41.688-04:002011-07-13T22:49:41.688-04:00Anon 4:18 - Just attached the bag, and the VO deca...Anon 4:18 - Just attached the bag, and the VO decaleur works fine with the 8cm stem.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-70329129472202376972011-07-13T19:29:45.425-04:002011-07-13T19:29:45.425-04:00"Sam is my go to bike that I ride most often....<i>"Sam is my go to bike that I ride most often. That speaks volumes about it's basic goodness as an all around bike."</i><br /><br />I rode the SH on Cape Cod last summer for 3 weeks as my only bike. Though I complained about having only 1 bike, if it were any other I'd have felt more limited. This summer we've just finalised our 2 weeks away plans and I'll be taking the SH again, for the same reasons. It's the only bike I own that is versatile enough for both roadcycling and transportationVelouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-71925694104452091812011-07-13T19:04:39.753-04:002011-07-13T19:04:39.753-04:00Wow, there are a lot of anonymous comments today. ...Wow, there are a lot of anonymous comments today. Seems like the 'road bike crowd' are weighing in today and it's an interesting perspective. I don't have much to add to what has been said thus far, but can relate my experience with my own Sam. When I got the bike, it had 700 x 38 Panaracer Pasela TG. I found the handling to be a bit slow and it did not roll well. A friend with a bike Friday (20" wheels) could out coast me. When it came time to replace the tires, I opted for 700 x 30 Cypres and the handling / coasting improved greatly. The rolling improvement was not perceived. I ride the same route every day and the cypress roll further without question. My other observation is that the Albatross bar offer a great position for climbing and accelerating and another position for relaxed riding. they are a bit too wide for some situations, but much better for climbing than I expected them to be. Sam is my go to bike that I ride most often. That speaks volumes about it's basic goodness as an all around bike.<br /><br />Experiments are good. Please keep writing about them.Areveehttp://twitter.com/ransomvnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-91735905931904274652011-07-13T18:35:32.040-04:002011-07-13T18:35:32.040-04:00Anon 12:11. Do you have a write-up of your experi...Anon 12:11. Do you have a write-up of your experimentation with different 650B tires? It would be really helpful to hear your impressions!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-11711693079961967552011-07-13T17:39:43.043-04:002011-07-13T17:39:43.043-04:00Just a little perspective on what a shallow angle ...Just a little perspective on what a shallow angle is.<br /><br />When Tony Rominger's carbon fiber wonder-bike didn't work so well, he did his 1994 world hour record on a factory overstock steel Colnago with a 71 degree seat angle.<br />When Steve Bauer wanted to extend his race career (he raced to age 37) he consulted with his childhood 6-day race heroes and they put him onto shallow angles. He completed Paris-Roubaix on a custom Eddy Merckx with a 65 degree seat angle. The balance of his 1995 and 1996 seasons were mostly on 68 and 69 degrees. Of the 65 degree bike he said he could cruise all day at 45kph no problem but past that it didn't accelerate well.<br /><br />The default race standard for the 60's, 70's, 80's was 72 degrees. Deviation from the norm was more likely towards 71 than towards 73. Look at old race photos, you will almost never see anyone riding except with the saddle back as far as it goes.<br /><br />Collectors pretty much know that a vintage Colnago or whatever with a 74 seat tube is a consumer model; if it's 72 you want to check it hasn't been raced until the chainstays are brittle.<br /><br />Steve Bauer's mentors were right, as you get older you want to sit further back. I'll say that with the authority comes of being an old fart. Grant Petersen is marketing to mostly his own cohort. They are better off on his bikes than fashion bikes.<br /><br />Huge caveat: Most commenters here are not women and are not short. The standard recipes don't work so well at the margins. Velouria is most gracious as she interrogates the panel here and evidently she values the input. At some point she's on her own. And she's doing great.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-41418626190038678522011-07-13T17:16:00.058-04:002011-07-13T17:16:00.058-04:00Hmm. I didn't think so, but I only cursorily p...Hmm. I didn't think so, but I only cursorily placed the bag on the front rack and did not try to attach it. Will check.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-87388104416413828532011-07-13T16:18:51.566-04:002011-07-13T16:18:51.566-04:00Are you have issues with the VO decaleur with the ...Are you have issues with the VO decaleur with the longer stem? My VO decaleur was too short with a 9cm stem, and I had to get a Berthoud decaleur to place the bag far enough off the handlebars for me to put my hands on the tops of the drops.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-21868422106792588612011-07-13T14:55:09.861-04:002011-07-13T14:55:09.861-04:00"She still wants her SH to be a touring bike ...<i>"She still wants her SH to be a touring bike ... just one that feels more in tune with her current preferences."</i><br /><br />Yes : )Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-36970148205050227322011-07-13T14:52:45.152-04:002011-07-13T14:52:45.152-04:00I should add to my 2:44 anon comment that I wasn&#...I should add to my 2:44 anon comment that I wasn't referring to the actual blog post, but to the comments ... the suggestions for lighter wheels, skinnier tires, etc.<br /><br />I don't think that's what V has in mind for her modifications. She still wants her SH to be a touring bike ... just one that feels more in tune with her current preferences.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-61911427390702249872011-07-13T14:51:24.969-04:002011-07-13T14:51:24.969-04:00Anon - I agree. But I don't think getting a se...Anon - I agree. But I don't think getting a seatpost with less setback and increasing stem length from 6 cm to 8 cm constitutes trying to make the Riv something it's not : )<br /><br />I compare the two bikes because they are the two bikes I am riding all the time now, and the differences in handling are new and fascinating to me. Also, to those without a roadcycling background, all diamond frame bikes with drop bars seem pretty much the same (just like all 3 speeds seem pretty much the same to many roadcyclists), so differentiating them can be useful in that context and for that audience.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-25979653118060242372011-07-13T14:44:35.090-04:002011-07-13T14:44:35.090-04:00People ... seriously?
The Riv SH is not, and neve...People ... seriously?<br /><br />The Riv SH is not, and never will be, a racing bike. The Seven is not, and never will be, what the SH is. <br /><br />I understand this is a forum of sorts to discuss possibilities and experiments. But it seems a bit silly (to me, anyway) to keep talking about how to make the SH faster and more efficient in climbing in comparison to the Seven. Making it faster and more efficient is fine ... it's the context of comparison that bothers me.<br /><br />The Seven is faster and more efficient, because it's a RACING bike. That's what it was designed to do. If I were taking part in a race or group training event, it's the one I'd choose. It's also NOT the bike I'd choose for an all day, pannier-carrying, sight-seeing, picnic-having trip with a full set of camera gear.<br /><br />I don't mean to be rude to anyone ... but I just think we should stop trying to make a bike something it's not. The SH is a beautiful, wonderful, comfortable piece of functional art that does what it does perfectly. Make all the adjustments you want for position and preference of components ... just don't expect it to be anything close to a race bike. It isn't ... and shouldn't be.<br /><br />Position and component preferences DO change with time, as do our desires/needs for different kinds of riding. The good thing about having multiple bikes is that each one is best for a different purpose. Letting them be what they are means not having to compromise for any ride ... just pick the one best suited for the day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-50985132949810976222011-07-13T12:50:33.772-04:002011-07-13T12:50:33.772-04:00Also, and I realise this contradicts what I wrote ...Also, and I realise this contradicts what I wrote earlier:<br /><br />Both Jan Heine and Grant Petersen, albeit in different ways, make an interesting point about the distinction between "feels faster" and "is faster." This is something worth considering, because our evaluations of a bicycle's performance are so subjective. I would take it a step further and say that if we "feel faster" on a bike (even if it's not actually faster) that can have the secondary effect of making us exert more effort. But then it's a psychological thing as opposed to an actual difference in what the bike is technically capable of.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-46833533816592049742011-07-13T12:41:35.946-04:002011-07-13T12:41:35.946-04:00M - I am skeptical because races don't happen ...M - I am skeptical because races don't happen on 650Bx42mm tires, and I am assuming that the "performance bike" industry has done extensive testing as well. Also, there is anecdotal evidence that contradicts the BQ claim, whereby others have put the Hetres vs narrower tires on their bike and claim that the bike was faster with the narrower tires.<br /><br />I am not motivated to do my own comparison because essentially this issue does not matter to me, and reinstalling the Hetres is a pain. I am starting with the premise that I want these particular tires and wheelset for a number of practical reasons, regardless of whether they make the bike faster or slower. I am willing to play around with the other stuff to increase its speed, but I would like the wheels and tires to remain a constant. Hope that makes sense.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-71926638943931018152011-07-13T12:30:11.284-04:002011-07-13T12:30:11.284-04:00"Two big things that affect climbing and acce..."Two big things that affect climbing and acceleration are wheel weight and tires. " I agree with Anonymous. Weight of wheels will make a huge difference in climbing, IMO.Donhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09710715433883677736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-19461596200517699722011-07-13T10:52:10.641-04:002011-07-13T10:52:10.641-04:00The thing is, that I don't believe there is su...The thing is, that I don't believe there is such a thing as THE proper bike fit, and that's why there is so much debate about which fitting method is "correct." Depending on the purpose of the bike, the goal of the cyclist, the skill and fitness of the cyclist, and even individual quirks, different fit philosophies may apply.<br /><br />The nice thing about a slack seat tube angle - whether achieved via the geometry itself or via a seatpost with dramatic setback - is that to cyclists who are not used to roadbikes it feels more comfortable to pedal that way, and it takes pressure of the hands. My hands used to hurt like hell on bikes with drop bars unless I pushed the saddle back, so I did and this solved the problem. <br /><br />But over time something funny has happened: I have arm muscles and abdominal muscles that were not there before, and they prop me up now. The "pressure on my hands" issue has become non existent. Same with what Anon 6:24 wrote earlier about leg muscles. It happened when I changed my style of cycling to a more intense one, and both my body and my riding style now warrant a different approach to fit.<br /><br />Things change, and what is "proper" for us changes too.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-32944841661886086752011-07-13T08:53:41.190-04:002011-07-13T08:53:41.190-04:00Your post reinforces the importance of proper bike...Your post reinforces the importance of proper bike fit, and how small changes make a lot of difference. I put many thousands of miles on my older road bike. When I would get neck spasms, I simply wrote it off to getting older. When I upgraded a few years ago, my local dealer took numerous measurements and asked a lot of questions about the kind of riding I do. The frame size was identical to my older bike, but with proper stem length and handlebars that were about 2cm wider, my neck problems disappeared. I can ride much faster and farther, in part because of the better fit.MT cyclistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-16340142787159345692011-07-13T06:53:43.309-04:002011-07-13T06:53:43.309-04:00"as much as I love the Hetres, I am skeptical..."as much as I love the Hetres, I am skeptical about the claims re their superior speed"<br /><br />Why are you skeptical? Have you done your own testing or is it just an impression? A tire that allows more road feel and is run at higher pressure may contribute to a feeling of being faster. (I always feel like I'm traveling much faster at night, too. But I'm not.)<br /><br />To further reduce the differences in the bikes, taking the fenders off may lessen the drag. Not permanently of course.<br /><br />Might be interesting to get the skinniest possible 650bs and try to recreate the conditions of BQ's tire test on a small scale. It would be nice to have some independent verification, and you could lose the skepticism, one way or the other.Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01285886035638697215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-9974095875192676092011-07-13T00:24:48.454-04:002011-07-13T00:24:48.454-04:00Anon - Didn't mean to be dismissive of your su...Anon - Didn't mean to be dismissive of your suggestion, and I do believe that narrower tires would make a difference (as much as I love the Hetres, I am skeptical about the claims re their superior speed).<br /><br />The Seven doesn't just have a lighter wheelset, but some super duper fancy Mavic things with a noisy hub and <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/lovely_bicycle/5854750634/in/set-72157626700470402" rel="nofollow">crazy flat spokes</a>. I love this wheelset on the Seven, in the context of "that" kind of bike - but I wouldn't want it on the Riv!<br /><br />I guess what I'm saying is that I'm willing to live with the current difference in speed between the bikes if it allows me to keep the wheel & tire configuration on the Rivendell. The difference is now reasonable given that the Seven is a racing bike and the Rivendell is designed for long distance touring.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-69231224487454076242011-07-13T00:11:25.430-04:002011-07-13T00:11:25.430-04:00"Anon 4:51 - A lighter wheelset and narrower ..."Anon 4:51 - A lighter wheelset and narrower tires would defeat the purpose of this bike for me. Plus I have a dynamo hub in there. I am fine playing around with the positioning, but the 650Bx42mm Hetres must stay. Note also that, according to the Bicycle Quarterly, these particular tires have very low rolling resistance and are faster than most narrow tires : ) "<br /><br />All I'm saying is that much of the perceived difference you are feeling in the Sam may be due to the wheelset and tires. So, you can change positions and reach and you may observe some differences. But, I believe there is a large set of differences that could be explored by trying different wheelsets and tires. But I understand if these aren't factors you want to or can change (I'm a dynamo fan myself).<br /><br />As for me, I've ridden the Hetre, Lierre, Cypres, Col de la Vie, Nifty Swifty, and SOMA B-line, all on the same set of bikes. I find that changes in the tire alone will noticeably affect my climbing and acceleration (not to mention handling). That's why I made my initial comment :) It's an easy and (relatively) cheap parameter to play with and the differences can sometimes be surprising--or at least they were for me. Just a suggestion though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-58166659989768887372011-07-12T22:30:48.304-04:002011-07-12T22:30:48.304-04:00Anon 4:51 - A lighter wheelset and narrower tires ...Anon 4:51 - A lighter wheelset and narrower tires would defeat the purpose of this bike for me. Plus I have a dynamo hub in there. I am fine playing around with the positioning, but the 650Bx42mm Hetres must stay. Note also that, according to the Bicycle Quarterly, these particular tires have very low rolling resistance and are faster than most narrow tires : )Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-69311144401076831292011-07-12T21:33:23.047-04:002011-07-12T21:33:23.047-04:00badmother - The saddle is the Berthoud Marie Blanq...badmother - The saddle is the Berthoud Marie Blanque. I posted a "first impressions" report of it <a href="http://lovelybike.blogspot.com/2011/01/gilles-berthoud-saddles-something.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> and since then have switched to it from my Brooks B17S. <br /><br />Anon 6:24 - I had a problem with Riv's long top tube initially, then got used to it. I will take the long TT over TCO.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-45266141708500329902011-07-12T20:50:01.897-04:002011-07-12T20:50:01.897-04:00Comprehensive post 6:24 and very accurate. Setbac...Comprehensive post 6:24 and very accurate. Setback pedaling action description describes what I was trying to do at one point, but my femurs are too short and back issues cropped up due to an acute angle.Ground Round Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09103163385322185034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-69835300767951403162011-07-12T20:37:36.025-04:002011-07-12T20:37:36.025-04:00Anon @ 6:24--I also like the technique where you r...Anon @ 6:24--I also like the technique where you reach down and help the pedals up with your hands. It works wonders on reducing leg cramps.MDInoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-35955463475362772032011-07-12T19:20:03.846-04:002011-07-12T19:20:03.846-04:00Interesting as always. Later I want to hear more a...Interesting as always. Later I want to hear more about the saddle as I am thinking of buyingh one.<br />badmotherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com