tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post2157586527994928506..comments2024-03-27T05:14:23.738-04:00Comments on Lovely Bicycle!: Why Not Here? Pondering the Ingredients of a Cycling TownVelouriahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-45636131291492496282011-05-04T23:03:54.329-04:002011-05-04T23:03:54.329-04:00I'm so sorry I missed this conversation since ...I'm so sorry I missed this conversation since I lived in State College for six years as a Penn State student starting in 1974. In my day I recall a fair amount of bikes and some of them were even ridden! Some of the quads had bike lockers, one of which I used for my yellow no-name 10-speed with Shimano gearing that took me on my then-longest one day ride, a 28-mile jaunt that included Port Matilda, verrry in the middle of nowhere back then and kind of now too. (I didn't exceed that one-day distance at any time in my life until two years ago when I started biking again).<br /><br />Biking seems more common there now (I'm in State College fairly often), including a bike shop that just took up new quarters in the heart of a major town-gown intersection on S. Allen St. near College Avenue. There's also a bit of a recumbent biking culture in the area. But I'm not looped into the community enough to know how deeply entrenched this is--and with the hills of this area, it definitely takes a harder-core commitment to ride much outside the State College/University Park environment. Penn State and State College, of course, are massive compared to little isolated Williamsport.Christopher Fotosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-49053446377474906462011-05-03T08:17:53.439-04:002011-05-03T08:17:53.439-04:00Responding to BG's point about small colleges ...Responding to BG's point about small colleges and scale, which makes a lot of sense. But Dartmouth is different, I think, not so much because of size (it's still pretty small and the buildings on campus are close together) as for other reasons: there's very little space for cars in Hanover, and students are actively discouraged from using them (first years aren't permitted at all, I seem to remember). And there's a very strong outdoors/active "culture"; people (not me, alas, when I was there!) tend to be very energetic about biking up hills and staying fit in the winter using machines (and skis/snowshoes etc). So it's part of the ethos there in very particular ways.No Nicknamehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02619726194481303414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-35996236338487743682011-05-03T00:50:56.734-04:002011-05-03T00:50:56.734-04:00I've never been to Williamsport and know nothi...I've never been to Williamsport and know nothing about Lycoming College, but I know a thing or two about college towns and small liberal-arts colleges in general. I've spent a little time in PA and quite a lot in NY state. I'm not at all surprised by what you saw. <br /><br />People really only start biking for transportation when two conditions are true: 1) they've got distances to cover that are between 1/2 mile and 5 miles, and 2) it's expensive and time-consuming to park a car at the destination. <br /><br />At a small residential college, it's rare for students to have very far to walk. Traditional campuses were designed to put a student's whole life in easy walking distance. So, faculty and staff might bike, but students probably won't. That was true of Amherst College when I was there -- while lots of students from neighboring UMass rode bikes (big campus, lots of students living off-campus), at AC there really wasn't a need for it. <br /><br />I'd also guess that it's neither expensive nor difficult to park a car there. That pretty much ensures that faculty and staff will drive to work. As you mentioned, much of PA is (unfortunately) in a population decline -- parking spaces are not at a premium. When I worked at another SLAC in a similarly depressed area of upstate NY, it was the same deal -- the parking permit was very cheap. I think I discovered that five faculty members, including myself, biked regularly (and all of us were exactly the kind of bike nerd you'd expect). And I'm pretty sure that would be the same of the other destinations in a town like that: easy, cheap (or free) car parking means no incentive to ride a bike.<br /><br />Ithaca and Hanover are different because Cornell (20,939 students, per Wikipedia) and Dartmouth (5,987) are much bigger schools, in both physical size and enrollment. I've lived in cities like that, too (Amherst, and also Charlottesville, VA), and it's a rather different experience.<br /><br />In all likelihood, biking will never catch on in the place you're describing. Even if the economy should miraculously turn around and people start moving there in large numbers, the surrounding flat, empty farmland makes it almost certain that the development pattern will be car-oriented sprawl. It takes a really rare combination of population and politics to institute an urban growth boundary, particularly in a place that hasn't had much urban growth in a long, long time. Honestly, the best hope for biking in a place like that: really high gas prices.BGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15650718276049777977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-50298386879750893862011-05-02T23:03:50.021-04:002011-05-02T23:03:50.021-04:00Peps - you live on the wrong coast.Peps - you live on the wrong coast.Ground Round Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09103163385322185034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-86291562488469949782011-05-02T22:38:26.213-04:002011-05-02T22:38:26.213-04:00Peppy, I've lived in rural Alabama, north Flor...Peppy, I've lived in rural Alabama, north Florida, and now rural NY, and the places you describe as being too hostile to ride I have ridden for years without notable incident. Honestly, I've found city and suburban drivers to be spookier, and primarily the suburban type to be worst of all. I have had very few problems riding in the "redneck" hinterlands.Bifhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05543158648103470697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-83243518083973345352011-05-02T22:23:33.113-04:002011-05-02T22:23:33.113-04:00Very interesting post, thanks. I live in a central...Very interesting post, thanks. I live in a central NY town about like the PA town you describe, but a little smaller and without a university. I'm an odd duck as I originate from Boston, but am not at all alone in cycling around town and surrounding hills. There are lots of interesting characters. There's even a good amount of road racing culture which is great, although I've moved away from that mode. Lots of road racers come from PA, maybe some were there but not apparent during your vist. Maybe they were turkey hunting.Bifhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05543158648103470697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-80161601499979133002011-05-02T21:56:53.169-04:002011-05-02T21:56:53.169-04:00Received this link via twitter re the Cycling Amis...Received <a href="http://bonius.com/blog/2010/12/27/some-observations-of-the-bike-amish/" rel="nofollow">this link</a> via twitter re the Cycling Amish...<br /><br />Peppy - I am talking strictly about the town, not the surrounding countryside. The mountains alone are enough to kill the desire to bicycle commute in 90% of the population, I daresay. And while I understand what you're saying about the local culture, didn't you find that the motorists in town were courteous?Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-55366705511098709062011-05-02T21:31:04.323-04:002011-05-02T21:31:04.323-04:00I don't expect cycling to be popular there or ...I don't expect cycling to be popular there or in other similar places. Think about it, large, open spaces. Country roads infrequently patrolled by police. Lots of aggressive young and otherwise men driving pickup trucks in which they feel invulnerable. The perceived vulnerability of a lone cyclist whom they approach from the rear makes some people act aggressively and others question the sanity and social status of the lone cyclist. I don't expect that to change because there is anthropological basis for this behaviour. In fact, the reason motorcyclists in such areas travel in groups, behave obnoxiously, run loud exhaust, act aggressively and wear threatening clothing is precisely to overcome their own perceived vulnerability--and that's not changing any time soon in this country.Peppy (the philosopher cattarati)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-77254129860943662472011-05-02T21:10:35.567-04:002011-05-02T21:10:35.567-04:00rob - Not at all, it's just that I've noti...rob - Not at all, it's just that I've noticed some have a problem with this term, but I can't think of another way to describe "the phenomenon whereby it is common for people to cycle."Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-54524013232471164352011-05-02T20:44:22.161-04:002011-05-02T20:44:22.161-04:00V- I wasn't trying to criticize your use of th...V- I wasn't trying to criticize your use of the term in your blog or elsewhere; i was just trying to apologize for my use of the term. this is largely b/c, in the circles I run in, the "cycling culture" phrase is used exclusively for heckling others.<br /><br />I agree that cycling culture is a valid concept for the open-minded. I just think that, with anything like this, there's a "snowball effect". Local theatre won't take off in a given town until the local scene grows enough for decent productions. Similarly, a town won't see a lot of bikers until there's enough cyclists to make it seem safe, fun, and acceptable for non-"losers".<br /><br />-robScreechhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15397676711365438175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-68761413037920094742011-05-02T19:57:07.623-04:002011-05-02T19:57:07.623-04:00I kind of agree with ground round and also it woul...I kind of agree with ground round and also it wouldn't hurt if we had to pay for gasoline like the Europeans do. Lets face it we are a car culture and will remain so until gas and car congestion make it impossible to use cars in the way we do now. We also need more rail transportation but there are governors that have turned down the funding for it because they want it for more highway constructionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-75128360791140769352011-05-02T19:41:32.523-04:002011-05-02T19:41:32.523-04:00I know that some take issue with the term "cy...I know that some take issue with the term "cycling culture," but I think that's making things unnecessarily complicated. When I use that term, I don't mean to identify cyclists as a distinct social group, but to say that cycling is common. When we say that a city has a "rich theater culture" it just means that it's got lots of theaters and the people living there like to go to them and watch plays. Same with cycling. Cycling culture vs no cycling culture is just a way of saying that "people ride bikes there" or "people don't really ride bikes there." <br /><br />Pennsyltucky : )) Yes, I've heard that one. As well as something to do with Alabama.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-18111179956262788122011-05-02T19:34:59.267-04:002011-05-02T19:34:59.267-04:00I think that, in a given area, there needs to be e...I think that, in a given area, there needs to be enough cyclists to create a viable local cycling "culture". This is a terribly ambiguous and overused term, but as it relates to this blog post, I'm saying that there needs to be enough cyclists visibly having fun on their way to a decent job or some sort of activity, so the residents of Pennsyltucky can feel like cycling is "OK". In many areas, the DUI/illegal immigrant stigma is still firmly in place; many ppl don't want to cycle for fear of looking like a "loser". (Sadly, even the poor folk in depressed areas sometimes display this snobbery.)<br /><br />-robScreechhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15397676711365438175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-42747748048420582802011-05-02T19:05:49.368-04:002011-05-02T19:05:49.368-04:00Ground Round Jim said...
"re: LAB. I wouldn&#...<i>Ground Round Jim said...<br />"re: LAB. I wouldn't put too much stock into their ratings."</i><br /><br />Oh, I know. Biking in Heels has an <a href="http://bikinginheels-cycler.blogspot.com/2011/05/silver-city-and-importance-of.html" rel="nofollow">interesting post</a> about that.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-4998080500588310502011-05-02T19:02:03.799-04:002011-05-02T19:02:03.799-04:00re: LAB. I wouldn't put too much stock into ...re: LAB. I wouldn't put too much stock into their ratings. These are the guys who sent you that wonderful Bike Month brochure. <br /> <br />Looking at their application for Bicycle Friendly Community the awards are given based upon paper-based criteria and local feedback. How they get this feedback is beyond me. Since there isn't anyone from the League "at ground level" in those communities confirming this local knowledge these awards strike me as a marketing opportunity for cities and the League itself. Last year an area of San Francisco, a former army base, was deemed a Gold-level community. It's a National Park sparsely inhabited - of course it's nice. This year I don't see it on the list. I guess because the reality didn't match the application. Stanford Uni was deemed a gold community as well, only it isn't and dropped off. The LAB have created a new category this year for unis of course. I understand for their next project retirement communities will be rated for their miles of segregated bike paths. Old people in golf carts can be hellions. <br /><br />Say a community is deemed gold, like SF. "Well, we've reached the pinnacle so let's not devote any more $ to infrastructure." The award can do more harm than good in this case. How does Portland slip when seemingly adding infrastructure on a daily basis and has a two year waiting list for bike corrals due to overwhelming business demands?<br /><br />Seems to me the best biking communities combine good infrastructure with benevolent driving attitudes and a critical mass of cyclists. The LAB positions itself as some kind of advocacy catalyst and maybe they do some good but when their brand of self-promotion has large elements of falsity in it, its credibility goes to the dogs.Ground Round Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09103163385322185034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-50243631320244568272011-05-02T18:16:51.211-04:002011-05-02T18:16:51.211-04:00"Why worry it" - good point. Couple of t..."Why worry it" - good point. Couple of things off the top of my head:<br /><br />Because the people living in that area are not well off and complain about that frequently. Commuting by bicycle locally might give them more disposable income to do fun things with. I am not suggesting that the farmers should transport stuff via cargobike over the mountains or anything like that. I am talking about <i>within</i> this town, where the residents currently drive 12 blocks to go to work and to the store. <br /><br />Because the college kids might enjoy it as an extra activity in a place where there isn't a whole lot to do, whilst also saving money.<br /><br />Having said that, I am not trying to impose my values on a town where I don't belong, and I am not saying that they "should" develop a cycling culture. I just merely wonder whether they eventually will, given that I think the town is well designed for it and the residents could find it useful.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-82390035974919624842011-05-02T18:07:43.159-04:002011-05-02T18:07:43.159-04:00I think it's very difficult to get serious urb...I think it's very difficult to get serious urban bike infrastructure and culture going in bucolic America even when there is a little college plopped down in the middle of it. I hazard that the niceness of the town's streets has to do with relatively little motor traffic and the courteousness has to do with rural ways. If it works for them, why worry it? Can the "it" be transplanted to urban USA? Nope.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-50089328145053045782011-05-02T17:31:05.949-04:002011-05-02T17:31:05.949-04:00I just read that Somerville (which I just can'...I just read that Somerville (which I just can't think of as an independent "city" from Metro Boston) is a "bronze" recipient of the League of American Bicyclists' 2011 rankings of Bike Friendly cities. <br /><br />Now, Somerville's layout is much *less* bike-friendly than Williamsport, IMO; Williamsport could be a cycling paradise in comparison given how nice their streets are and how comparatively courteous the drivers.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-38231628120524512072011-05-02T17:25:24.635-04:002011-05-02T17:25:24.635-04:00Yes, as you and Frits describe it, one-way would m...Yes, as you and Frits describe it, one-way would make sense on narrow streets.<br />Any mention of Amsterdam or Copenhagen makes me chuckle about last year's gubernatorial election in Colorado, my home state. The Republican candidate, Dan Maes, decried Denver's new bike share program as evidence of "converting Denver into a United Nations community.<br />"This is bigger than it looks like on the surface, and it could threaten our personal freedoms," Maes said.<br />His opponent, former Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper, is an avid cyclist. Hick cleaned his clock in November.MT cyclisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17451590809473759574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-77251850405035807522011-05-02T17:05:56.968-04:002011-05-02T17:05:56.968-04:00MT cyclist - Oh, right, not talking about those st...MT cyclist - Oh, right, not talking about those streets! I meant more like what Frits describes. With a 25mph speed limit and only 1 (max 2) lanes of traffic, it is difficult to mash on the gas.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-33940253817546813482011-05-02T16:34:32.393-04:002011-05-02T16:34:32.393-04:00Re one-way streets as in Amsterdam: Dutch one-way ...Re one-way streets as in Amsterdam: Dutch one-way streets are usually one-way simply because they are considered too narrow for two-way traffic nowadays. Too narrow, in fact, to also accommodate bike lanes so in most cases cyclists have the use of the road in both directions whereas drivers have only one choice. For those familiar with central Amsterdam canals: one side up, one side down for cars, both sides open in both directions for bicycles. Works well enough once you're used to it. And it helps that cyclists are in the majority.Frits Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11399632570565541892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-23219748999589409282011-05-02T16:15:31.068-04:002011-05-02T16:15:31.068-04:00In my city, officials are proposing to eliminate s...In my city, officials are proposing to eliminate some one-way streets in order to slow traffic. Drivers tend to mash on the gas pedal when they see a straight road with four lanes of traffic going the same way. Other ways they calm traffic downtown is by converting to diagonal parking and by designing small bump-outs at corners as an aid to pedestrians. It has really slowed things down.MT cyclisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17451590809473759574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-27985395669098883022011-05-02T15:14:28.533-04:002011-05-02T15:14:28.533-04:00Daniel - It's not me, but (what I think is) a ...Daniel - It's not me, but (what I think is) a commonly held notion of traffic-calming. Towns that are heavy on one-way streets are said to encourage slower, more careful driving. Sorry, but I don't have a citation. Anyone?<br /><br />But re your Amsterdam link, I think the idea is also that when a town does make bike lanes, the 1 way streets + bi-directional lanes will make life easier for cyclists.<br /><br />Not sure whether I personally agree with either of the above, but I see these ideas mentioned often.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-61237564713678140902011-05-02T15:10:45.703-04:002011-05-02T15:10:45.703-04:00Why do you think one-way streets are better for bi...Why do you think one-way streets are better for bicyclists? I personally am more apt to go the wrong way on a one-way street on my bicycle than in my car (although only rarely on the bike and never in the car) because I often don't feel that riding the extra blocks to go the right way is worth it.<br /><br />On the other hand, streets that are one-way for cars and bidirectional for bicycles are very appealing. I was happy on those when riding in Amsterdam, and this article claims it is safe:<br />http://www.bikexprt.com/research/contraflow/gegengerichtet.htm<br /><br />Dan.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08133717973612191989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-31869927240341165852011-05-02T15:09:40.062-04:002011-05-02T15:09:40.062-04:00Just to clarify one point: I am familiar with farm...Just to clarify one point: I am familiar with farmlands and with rural communities. I have lived in rural Northern New Hampshire and rural Maine, which have been economically depressed for decades. Despite the seeming similarity in landscape (mountains, valleys, rivers, 4 seasons) and demographics (poverty, predominantly Caucasian & Protestant population of Germanic origins), I am saying that Central PA looked sparse and abandoned in comparison to these other farming landscapes I know. I can't describe it succinctly enough to make sense, but it just struck me as very different. The Earth is a different colour, as are the mountains and the vegetation - holding time of the year constant. Also, even in the early spring there tends to be <i>some</i> activity on functional farms - clearing of debris, getting things ready, etc. Very rarely have I seen just empty farms with no signs of life in even the most depressed areas of NH and Maine.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.com