tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post1208927969521079756..comments2024-03-27T05:14:23.738-04:00Comments on Lovely Bicycle!: Side Street or Main Street?Velouriahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-1724730575539175992011-09-01T20:31:42.006-04:002011-09-01T20:31:42.006-04:00I agree that there are many differences. In Philly...I agree that there are many differences. In Philly as in Boston, some of our main streets are narrower than the side streets in younger US cities. <br /><br />I never feel comfortable on our widest arterials, which have the speed and volume of cities like New York and Chicago. When our side streets have room for passing, motorists compulsively overtake with inches to spare. <br /><br />I prefer our "main streets," as these are usually one or two lanes. Many of them now have bike infrastructure. If they were wider, I don't think I'd feel as confident.<br /><br />I think narrow streets are an asset to cycling, but only when cyclists have priority. Otherwise, reckless driving makes it a difficult situation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-81213795023856835532011-08-29T10:36:47.567-04:002011-08-29T10:36:47.567-04:00"Could it simply be a matter of city to city ...<i>"Could it simply be a matter of city to city cultural differences? "</i><br /><br />Definitely, even when it comes to factors such as the narrowness of side streets and the design of intersections. Boston's side streets tend to be very narrow, and I think this contributes to the problem.Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-51710034528466541462011-08-29T05:17:00.467-04:002011-08-29T05:17:00.467-04:00I try to take side streets and paths when possible...I try to take side streets and paths when possible. In my home town we have recently had a guy hit by a cement mixer (fatality) and a girl hit by a SUV (fatality). That was enough for me. The side streets here are old brick that is rough as a cob which keeps the cars moving slowly down them. I find that I am usually moving as fast or faster than they are. I hope the city allows more streets to become rough so traffic is forced to slow down. Given the budget crunch many cities are facing that may become a reality.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-41200846951720492022011-08-27T23:24:25.902-04:002011-08-27T23:24:25.902-04:00I like side streets, because that bring a slow tim...I like side streets, because that bring a slow time and new discovery for my daily life.<br />And, side streets are very photogenic for me.Kengohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04745725657326316648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-38319762149149888692011-08-27T21:34:14.420-04:002011-08-27T21:34:14.420-04:00It's fun to find convoluted routes via side or...It's fun to find convoluted routes via side or residential streets. I don't mind the extra time and it's more relaxing. But then I don't live in a super urban area. Many opportunities for staying off high traffic areas.Velodoghttp://thefoxnote.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-78708248199717370592011-08-27T21:30:05.291-04:002011-08-27T21:30:05.291-04:00Here in Garland TX there isn't much choice, fo...Here in Garland TX there isn't much choice, for most starting points and most destinations you have to ride on an arterial highway/street, for at least a major part of the trip if not the entire trip except for a short segment. That's what you get with Superblocks and arterials with no grid of secondary streets...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-11644031183177236152011-08-27T19:12:57.668-04:002011-08-27T19:12:57.668-04:00Last point I forgot to mention: Whenever I am else...Last point I forgot to mention: Whenever I am elsewhere in North America, I notice how cyclists hug the curb or stay close to the line of parked cars. I am not sure whether they realise it but from my perspective they always are too close. I guess people are nervous about being honked or hit from behind. However, in side streets, this is very dangerous.<br /><br />Here, whenever on a side street, I purposefully take not just the lane but the street, i.e. I position myself so nobody can pass me. This is only on narrow streets of course. This garantees me that nobody can brush be, hit my mirror, squeeze me etc. It is legal to do that. Most people do that as well in the neighbourhoods I cycle in. I don't care about honking, they can honk until the end of the world, they usually get tired before me. I do that to slow cars down so they don't attempt passing, first of all, and also so they don't pass me at full speed. As well, when I am cycling uphill I always do that regardless, as I sometimes wobble a lot.<br />It works. When it becomes safer FOR ME, I give space and they can pass. <br />When you do not do that, then it can become very dangerous to cycle in secondary streets.<br />Most car drivers in those places I cycle are used to that, behave in a very civil manner, slow down in advance, and pass carefully.<br />The worst that ever happen to me was some honking, usually some bleached 40 something bourgeoise in a upper-end car with big rocks at her fingers. <br />And Bixi folks cycle so randomly that they will be two or three abreast, cycle in groups, forcing cars to wait behind. This has benefited everyone.Montrealizehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08689176985812848399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-54589641194960441212011-08-27T19:11:24.737-04:002011-08-27T19:11:24.737-04:00When I am cycling with my child in his seat or tra...When I am cycling with my child in his seat or trailer, I try to stay on the wider residential side streets as much as possible. It just feels safer. It gives people the opportunity to register that there is a "baby on board" since they are moving a little slower and are in "the neighborhood" and are looking out for their neighbors' pets/kids any way (since it is bad form to run over either). When I am alone I prefer wide, winding country roads. However, these rarely go any where "productive" so it's main streets for utility cycling.Noreasterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11267875702684892553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-79319985274578837892011-08-27T15:50:10.474-04:002011-08-27T15:50:10.474-04:00I'm def a side street rider. I will log lots o...I'm def a side street rider. I will log lots of extra milage to avoid some streets. I find that people give clearance ok on a side street and I like being able to amble. I don't like white knuckling my handlebars on main streets. but I ride in the burbs anyway so it's never too crazy.MamaVeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09519007680870604271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-45119129541856834032011-08-27T15:41:22.309-04:002011-08-27T15:41:22.309-04:00Could it simply be a matter of city to city cultur...Could it simply be a matter of city to city cultural differences? <br />The urbanism in Chicago and Boston are probably not the same which might be part of the explanation.<br /><br />Here in Montreal, cyclists prefer side streets when they take you somewhere. They are quieter, and usually wide enough. Some neigbourhoods have clearly marked those streets (with signs etc.) cyclable so cars cannot ignore and know what to expect. This is provided such side streets are not part of a rat-run scheme/routine in which case you still can have speeding in these streets.<br />Plus we have a long tradition of living outside, i.e. sitting out on balconies, hanging out on porches, children playing in the streets, as a lot of Montreal central was, and still is blue-collar and poor. Which means, apart from rat-running, those in the streets, playing, biking and usually your children or your neigbhours.<br />Transit traffic is a major problem (if not THE major problem) to ped/cyclist safety in town is the subject of big controversies.<br /><br />People do cycle on major arteries when they need to get somewhere fast, they have a long route, get somewhere specific, or are daredevils. When you have enough lanes (i.e. René-Lévesque), it is actually safe enough even if still nerve-wracking.<br />Those bi-directional arteries with two lanes only ARE dangerous as cars cannot change lane to pass you so they squeeze, bully you etc.Montrealizehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08689176985812848399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-29871306370190333672011-08-27T12:06:10.748-04:002011-08-27T12:06:10.748-04:00I find it depends heavily on the area and time of ...I find it depends heavily on the area and time of day. Philadelphia is congested as Boston; in central Philadelphia I find the difference between major and minor streets is not that pronounced. Since the major streets may be the one 4 lane road compared to nine other 2 lane roads, I use what ever road goes to my destination or has a bridge.<br /><br />In Chester county, PA, the major Route 30 is extremely contested at rush hour (many secondary roads are busy too), so I use a secondary road with less traffic to go to work (driving or bicycling, Route 30 can be that slow). In the evening, I'm more likely to use Route 30 (bicycling or driving) since that's where the grocery stores, libraries, stores are etc.<br /><br />Years ago I was in Kansas - it seemed like major roads were 20mph faster than Boston. Major suburban roads were 4-6 lanes at 50+mph (actual, not legal speed), spaced about a mile apart. On the 1/2 mile were secondary roads with very little traffic. In this case I used the 1/2 mile secondary roads since they were both continuous and pleasant, rather than fighting hostile drivers at high speeds.<br /><br />My recollection of Boston/Cambridge in the 80's is that main roads were usually had better right of way and simpler routes, and narrower roads and congestion kept drivers from getting too stupid. <br /><br />AngeloAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-3746403430354890372011-08-27T09:30:40.551-04:002011-08-27T09:30:40.551-04:00Interesting obeservations! Overall, I find that dr...Interesting obeservations! Overall, I find that drivers on main streets have more of a need for speed (gotta get to work NOW!!) and are not expecting to see a bike in this environment. WHen I'm on side streets, I find that there are fewer variables to consider, which is a huge help when biking with my dudes. <br /><br />However, I do see your point. I think there are fewer eyes watching on side streets, so drivers think they can bully or rage without impunity.<br /><br />Great stuff to consider!Cherilynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16091536510203894162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-10281266142356240672011-08-27T03:14:19.642-04:002011-08-27T03:14:19.642-04:00I tend to prefer main streets - better quality roa...I tend to prefer main streets - better quality roads and I don't surprise as many vehicles as on side streets. However, there are instances where I'm forced to use side streets due to difficulties in turning right during heavy traffic (I'm in a left-hand-drive part of the world).Ceciliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06345590524270302144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-82343779706559870272011-08-27T01:29:05.124-04:002011-08-27T01:29:05.124-04:00I've always chosen routes that avoid main stre...I've always chosen routes that avoid main streets whenever possible. Tucson has a good number of designated bike routes (maps are published by the county government and available at most libraries and bike shops). <br /><br />Tucson and the county (Pima) have done a good job with designating bike lanes, even on major roads. Tucson has also received a Gold Star rating by the League of American Bicyclists as a "Bicycle Friendly Community". <br /><br />Just listening to the accident reports, my impression is that most car bicycle accidents in Tucson occur on main thoroughfares.Pimadudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14345785381009488765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-31496246402324081442011-08-27T00:26:39.776-04:002011-08-27T00:26:39.776-04:00Steve A said...
"My commute logs indicate...&...<i>Steve A said...<br />"My commute logs indicate..."</i><br /><br />!Velouriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359329171411037482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-88604910949665538232011-08-26T22:22:15.242-04:002011-08-26T22:22:15.242-04:00I mainly stick to main streets in Seattle since si...I mainly stick to main streets in Seattle since side streets are incredibly narrow here and lined with parked cars. There is little visibility at intersections, and a lot of intersections are not controlled at all (no stop signs, no traffic circle, etc). Portland, by contrast has nice wide side streets that look like they would be a joy to cycle on. Also, geography in Seattle dictates taking main roads to get across water and around huge hills.<br /><br />The multi-use trail here that is used like a freeway for bicycles is a horrible place to ride during "rush hour". People are downright clueless and rude (walkers, joggers, and cyclists alike-- though the cyclists are the worst and the most dangerous offenders from my point of view)-- I know of two people who have been involved in fairly serious bicycle on bicycle accidents on said trail, and one of these people ended up with a broken neck. Crazy.Amandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08892553888930861596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-18014266219083687092011-08-26T19:34:36.891-04:002011-08-26T19:34:36.891-04:00Interesting topic! I treat every area I ride in di...Interesting topic! I treat every area I ride in differently, depending on the hazards and safe riding places that exist in that area. Sometimes I ride on the footpaths as they are empty while the road is full of speeding and/or parked cars. Other times I travel along side streets because they have less traffic and are quite wide and safe. There is one local street near where I live which is very busy but because there are lots of pedestrians and quite a few cyclists and some traffic lights on it, the traffic travels very slowly along it so I am easily able to keep up with the traffic. I like riding along this street, I find it challenging without being dangerous. The type of aggression I have encountered from drivers lately is them telling me or signalling to me that I should be walking when crossing the road! This amazes me as it has never occurred at a place where there is a "cyclists dismount" sign - though there is one of these at a local railway crossing.<br />VickiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-22048054816051265552011-08-26T19:30:30.930-04:002011-08-26T19:30:30.930-04:00I live in London and...well...to put it franky...b...I live in London and...well...to put it franky...both side and main roads here are rubbish for cycling.<br /><br />It's generally a more direct/qucker route to take the main road. But then you have the problem of more cars, buses and trucks.<br />Ah...most of our roads are also rather narrow with cars parked on either side or buses stopping everywhere.<br /><br />My view is that you need to be quite assertive and take a primary position (i.e. claim the lane). Ignore the aggressive and abuseive drivers and continue along at your own speed.<br /><br />So basically, whether I take the side roads or main roads depends on (a)mood; (b)weather; (c)time constraints...oh and (d)time of day/night (you don't want to be going down some side roads at 1am!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-21986713208040270362011-08-26T19:19:00.322-04:002011-08-26T19:19:00.322-04:00I take both residential and arterial routes, depen...I take both residential and arterial routes, depending on how fast I need to get somewhere and which bike I'm riding. On my road bikes, I don't like the starts and stops that mean clipping and unclipping into my pedals, so I take the arterial streets. On my Dutch bike and errand bike, I cruise the neighborhoods.<br /><br />I don't see any significant behavioral differences between the routes. A-holes are a-holes no matter what, and polite people are polite everywhere. Both groups drive both kinds of streets.<br /><br />The biggest difference I notice is that the neighborhood streets are q-u-i-e-t compared to the LOUD arterials. Which is why I love the neighborhoods.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-68086235954285001692011-08-26T18:38:22.852-04:002011-08-26T18:38:22.852-04:00when i first started biking again 4 years ago in a...when i first started biking again 4 years ago in austin, tx, i always used side streets. mainly because biking there was more of a sport and you did not see as many people on the street in regular (non-spandex) clothes. from what i understand it biking in austin has changed a lot in the past few years, hurray! biking here in boston the past three years, i prefer main streets. i feel like on main streets there is so much more happening but i know the rules and i know my place within those rules. i feel much more comfortable even with the buses, trucks, cabs, cars and texting pedestrians. my daily ride to work is half southwest corridor half main city streets. the southwest corridor is the part that i like least. i always feel better when i make it to the streets with out with-out bike lanes. the only thing i really like about side streets is that is when i practice riding with no hands like when i was a kid!dchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12198798167132287090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-32594620330634517312011-08-26T18:06:26.688-04:002011-08-26T18:06:26.688-04:00My commute logs indicate it is more or less six of...My commute logs indicate it is more or less six of one and a half dozen of the other. I do seem to see more peculiar motorist behavior per car on side streets - like the wrong-way lady I encountered recently.Steve Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13650405341304401203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-60834295887358715892011-08-26T17:49:51.691-04:002011-08-26T17:49:51.691-04:00Erica S., for the debris and omnipresent potholes ...Erica S., for the debris and omnipresent potholes on Baltimore streets I highly recommend the fattest tires that will fit. Our streets are like off-roading sometimes. I use 2" (50mm) slicks, which some might think are overkill, but even when I'm riding down a steep hill at a fast clip I don't even bother to avoid potholes - I just roll right over them along with the debris and exposed abandoned streetcar tracks. Fatties really make a bike more stable and safer on these streets. :)Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12289745556219478251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-40326343664933699802011-08-26T17:20:02.653-04:002011-08-26T17:20:02.653-04:00"I also think that drivers are less likely to..."I also think that drivers are less likely to keep their aggression in check when there are fewer witnesses"<br /><br />Anecdotally, that has been the complete opposite of my experience. I get harassed on busy main routes as a matter of course, so much so that it is to be expected. I suspect pack mentality contributes to the harassment, where the driver is subconsciously showing off for the other motorists. [mind you, I'm not targeting motorists for that particular idiocy, but rather humanity as a whole]. My one-on-one experiences on side street are overwhelmingly positive - sometimes even jovial. It can takes weeks to for me to be harassed on them; but if I ride on arterials and main roads I'm almost guaranteed harassment at least once daily.Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12289745556219478251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-6082852581691222972011-08-26T16:46:32.144-04:002011-08-26T16:46:32.144-04:00Townmouse -- in Boston it's usually the other ...Townmouse -- in Boston it's usually the other way around; main streets go both ways and side streets go one way. I prefer side streets, but often they don't go where I'm trying to go. But then, Boston isn't a very "US" city.BGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15650718276049777977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6467858377106451384.post-82236586905628373092011-08-26T16:18:40.835-04:002011-08-26T16:18:40.835-04:00I've been much happier since about a year ago ...I've been much happier since about a year ago I switched my commute from a main street without a bike lane (Broadway in Camb) to Green Street. It is too narrow for both a bike and a car, and there is parking on both sides, so I take the lane for 5 or so long blocks. I have had fewer conflicts than when taking the lane on Broadway, even though people can't actually pass me as they could have on Broadway.<br />I justify it as being a residential street with lots of potential obstacles (cars parking, kids running out etc) and people shouldn't take it if they're really in a hurry. <br />I get more abuse per mile in the two blocks I have to take on Putnam, which has parking, is super narrow, and where the pavement is awful, limiting my speed.cyclerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10331461189944538729noreply@blogger.com